Jim Nagel wrote on 13 Apr:
> I recently updated the home page of my own website. Then tested
> viewing it with Netsurf. It kept serving up the old page, despite my
> clicking Netsurf's Reload button -- with Select (to reload page), then
> again with Adjust (to "reload page and all the objects it contains").
Did some further updates on the Archive site today, and again came up
against this fails-to-reload problem. Neither ^F5 or ^R or the
buttonbar route do the trick: old page always reappears.
Then an Aha moment. My change was to the contents of a FRAME within
the page.
Is there any way to cause a frame to reload? Do the powers of ^F5 etc
need to be extended?
Still using Netsurf #3433 here, on Armini 5.22 and ArmX6 5.23 -- I
promise to fetch newest version this weekend.
(As for frames, I see their disadvantages. The Archive site was
maintained for 15 years by a volunteer member, who designed it when
frames were in fashion. Sad to say, he died at Christmas.)
--
Jim Nagel www.archivemag.co.uk
Saturday, 30 April 2016
Re: Text drag & drop
On 29 April 2016 14:43:00 BST, Vincent Sanders <vince@netsurf-browser.org> wrote:
>On Wed, Apr 27, 2016 at 06:13:18PM +0100, Chris Young wrote:
>> On Wed, 27 Apr 2016 16:47:15 +0100, Richard Torrens (lists) wrote:
>>
>> > Somewhere between 3492 and 3507 the ability to mark text, drag and
>drop
>> > elsewhere has been lost. Also the find text does not mark the
>finds.
>> >
>> > This was very useful! I hope it's temporary thing?
>>
>> Marking text isn't working correctly on the Amiga version either.
>Put
>> it on the bugtracker if you haven't already.
>>
>
>Apologies for this Chris. I have been making some core changes
>improving the font layout API and messed up converting some
>frontends. I fixed the others but you got to Amiga before I had
>chance. Thanks for that
No problem. I saw what you did with the RISC OS version so I figured the fix would be the same. :)
>I have also recently changed the warn_user API. The core have very,
>very few usages of this left and mostly returns nserror from API
>letting the frontends report errors as they see fit. However this
>means frontends now provide the warning API through the miscellaneous
>operations table. Frontend code that should generate user warnings
>(amiga_warn_user for the amiga frontend) should be called directly
>
>To avoid breakage I kept the old warn_user() API in utils/utils.[ch]
>while I carefully remove usages. Rather than risk me breaking your
>frontend again might it be possible for you to remove the use of this
>API?
Yes, no problem.
I'm having some problems accessing this email account from home, so whilst I'm struggling typing on my phone, can you kick off a rebuild of the ppc-amiga toolchain please? I added some includes I now need for the version in master.
Thanks
Chris
>On Wed, Apr 27, 2016 at 06:13:18PM +0100, Chris Young wrote:
>> On Wed, 27 Apr 2016 16:47:15 +0100, Richard Torrens (lists) wrote:
>>
>> > Somewhere between 3492 and 3507 the ability to mark text, drag and
>drop
>> > elsewhere has been lost. Also the find text does not mark the
>finds.
>> >
>> > This was very useful! I hope it's temporary thing?
>>
>> Marking text isn't working correctly on the Amiga version either.
>Put
>> it on the bugtracker if you haven't already.
>>
>
>Apologies for this Chris. I have been making some core changes
>improving the font layout API and messed up converting some
>frontends. I fixed the others but you got to Amiga before I had
>chance. Thanks for that
No problem. I saw what you did with the RISC OS version so I figured the fix would be the same. :)
>I have also recently changed the warn_user API. The core have very,
>very few usages of this left and mostly returns nserror from API
>letting the frontends report errors as they see fit. However this
>means frontends now provide the warning API through the miscellaneous
>operations table. Frontend code that should generate user warnings
>(amiga_warn_user for the amiga frontend) should be called directly
>
>To avoid breakage I kept the old warn_user() API in utils/utils.[ch]
>while I carefully remove usages. Rather than risk me breaking your
>frontend again might it be possible for you to remove the use of this
>API?
Yes, no problem.
I'm having some problems accessing this email account from home, so whilst I'm struggling typing on my phone, can you kick off a rebuild of the ppc-amiga toolchain please? I added some includes I now need for the version in master.
Thanks
Chris
Friday, 29 April 2016
Re: Text drag & drop
On Wed, Apr 27, 2016 at 06:13:18PM +0100, Chris Young wrote:
> On Wed, 27 Apr 2016 16:47:15 +0100, Richard Torrens (lists) wrote:
>
> > Somewhere between 3492 and 3507 the ability to mark text, drag and drop
> > elsewhere has been lost. Also the find text does not mark the finds.
> >
> > This was very useful! I hope it's temporary thing?
>
> Marking text isn't working correctly on the Amiga version either. Put
> it on the bugtracker if you haven't already.
>
Apologies for this Chris. I have been making some core changes
improving the font layout API and messed up converting some
frontends. I fixed the others but you got to Amiga before I had
chance. Thanks for that
I have also recently changed the warn_user API. The core have very,
very few usages of this left and mostly returns nserror from API
letting the frontends report errors as they see fit. However this
means frontends now provide the warning API through the miscellaneous
operations table. Frontend code that should generate user warnings
(amiga_warn_user for the amiga frontend) should be called directly
To avoid breakage I kept the old warn_user() API in utils/utils.[ch]
while I carefully remove usages. Rather than risk me breaking your
frontend again might it be possible for you to remove the use of this
API?
> Chris
>
>
--
Regards Vincent
http://www.kyllikki.org/
> On Wed, 27 Apr 2016 16:47:15 +0100, Richard Torrens (lists) wrote:
>
> > Somewhere between 3492 and 3507 the ability to mark text, drag and drop
> > elsewhere has been lost. Also the find text does not mark the finds.
> >
> > This was very useful! I hope it's temporary thing?
>
> Marking text isn't working correctly on the Amiga version either. Put
> it on the bugtracker if you haven't already.
>
Apologies for this Chris. I have been making some core changes
improving the font layout API and messed up converting some
frontends. I fixed the others but you got to Amiga before I had
chance. Thanks for that
I have also recently changed the warn_user API. The core have very,
very few usages of this left and mostly returns nserror from API
letting the frontends report errors as they see fit. However this
means frontends now provide the warning API through the miscellaneous
operations table. Frontend code that should generate user warnings
(amiga_warn_user for the amiga frontend) should be called directly
To avoid breakage I kept the old warn_user() API in utils/utils.[ch]
while I carefully remove usages. Rather than risk me breaking your
frontend again might it be possible for you to remove the use of this
API?
> Chris
>
>
--
Regards Vincent
http://www.kyllikki.org/
Thursday, 28 April 2016
online phone book
Can anybody point me to a free online telephone directory that works
on Netsurf?
The BT one worked fine until two or three years ago, when it seems
they "improved" some Javascript or something. Now only the "find a
business by type" section (the default) works in Netsurf. Clicking
the other tabs, "Find a business by name" and "Find a person" both
produce an irrelevant Products and Services page:
http://www.thephonebook.bt.com/publisha.content/en/index.publisha
Have searched the web for alternative directory sites, but all want
you to register and pay, or they don't work in Netsurf.
I could have a go at making suggestions via the BT press office, if
anybody could clue me in on what the tech problem is. It might well
be something fairly simple in their Javascript.
--
Jim Nagel www.archivemag.co.uk
on Netsurf?
The BT one worked fine until two or three years ago, when it seems
they "improved" some Javascript or something. Now only the "find a
business by type" section (the default) works in Netsurf. Clicking
the other tabs, "Find a business by name" and "Find a person" both
produce an irrelevant Products and Services page:
http://www.thephonebook.bt.com/publisha.content/en/index.publisha
Have searched the web for alternative directory sites, but all want
you to register and pay, or they don't work in Netsurf.
I could have a go at making suggestions via the BT press office, if
anybody could clue me in on what the tech problem is. It might well
be something fairly simple in their Javascript.
--
Jim Nagel www.archivemag.co.uk
Re: Text drag & drop
In article <5577741072JohnRW@ukgateway.net>,
John Williams <JohnRW@ukgateway.net> wrote:
> So that might correspond with: ...
Thank you, Vincent; normal behaviour restored!
John
--
| John Williams
| johnrw@ukgateway.net
Names for Soul Band:- Soul Beneficiary *
John Williams <JohnRW@ukgateway.net> wrote:
> So that might correspond with: ...
Thank you, Vincent; normal behaviour restored!
John
--
| John Williams
| johnrw@ukgateway.net
Names for Soul Band:- Soul Beneficiary *
Wednesday, 27 April 2016
Re: Text drag & drop
In article <5577741072JohnRW@ukgateway.net>,
John Williams <JohnRW@ukgateway.net> wrote:
> > Somewhere between 3492 and 3507 the ability to mark text, drag and drop
> > elsewhere has been lost. Also the find text does not mark the finds.
> Absent in 3495. So that might correspond with:
> Apr 24 2016 1:35:32 PM
> 1. update risc os frontend for layout table - Vincent Sanders/cgit
> - from the changes page.
Drag and drop does still work - it's just that you now cannot see what you
are dragging!
--
Richard Torrens.
http://www.Torrens.org.uk for genealogy, natural history, wild food, walks, cats
and more!
John Williams <JohnRW@ukgateway.net> wrote:
> > Somewhere between 3492 and 3507 the ability to mark text, drag and drop
> > elsewhere has been lost. Also the find text does not mark the finds.
> Absent in 3495. So that might correspond with:
> Apr 24 2016 1:35:32 PM
> 1. update risc os frontend for layout table - Vincent Sanders/cgit
> - from the changes page.
Drag and drop does still work - it's just that you now cannot see what you
are dragging!
--
Richard Torrens.
http://www.Torrens.org.uk for genealogy, natural history, wild food, walks, cats
and more!
Re: Text drag & drop
On Wed, 27 Apr 2016 16:47:15 +0100, Richard Torrens (lists) wrote:
> Somewhere between 3492 and 3507 the ability to mark text, drag and drop
> elsewhere has been lost. Also the find text does not mark the finds.
>
> This was very useful! I hope it's temporary thing?
Marking text isn't working correctly on the Amiga version either. Put
it on the bugtracker if you haven't already.
Chris
> Somewhere between 3492 and 3507 the ability to mark text, drag and drop
> elsewhere has been lost. Also the find text does not mark the finds.
>
> This was very useful! I hope it's temporary thing?
Marking text isn't working correctly on the Amiga version either. Put
it on the bugtracker if you haven't already.
Chris
Re: Text drag & drop
In article <5577708765Lists@Torrens.org.uk>,
Richard Torrens (lists) <Lists@Torrens.org.uk> wrote:
> Somewhere between 3492 and 3507 the ability to mark text, drag and drop
> elsewhere has been lost. Also the find text does not mark the finds.
Absent in 3495. So that might correspond with:
Apr 24 2016 1:35:32 PM
1. update risc os frontend for layout table - Vincent Sanders/cgit
- from the changes page.
John
--
| John Williams
| johnrw@ukgateway.net
Names for Soul Band:- Soul Doubt *
Richard Torrens (lists) <Lists@Torrens.org.uk> wrote:
> Somewhere between 3492 and 3507 the ability to mark text, drag and drop
> elsewhere has been lost. Also the find text does not mark the finds.
Absent in 3495. So that might correspond with:
Apr 24 2016 1:35:32 PM
1. update risc os frontend for layout table - Vincent Sanders/cgit
- from the changes page.
John
--
| John Williams
| johnrw@ukgateway.net
Names for Soul Band:- Soul Doubt *
[gccsdk] New GCC Release Deprecates old ARMs.
Hi,
Thought might be of interest to the list; though it's probably not news
to the main contributors, there are lurkers like me.
https://gcc.gnu.org/gcc-6/changes.html#arm says
Support for revisions of the ARM architecture prior to ARMv4t has
been deprecated and will be removed in a future GCC release. The
-mcpu and -mtune values that are deprecated are: arm2, arm250, arm3,
arm6, arm60, arm600, arm610, arm620, arm7, arm7d, arm7di, arm70,
arm700, arm700i, arm710, arm720, arm710c, arm7100, arm7500,
arm7500fe, arm7m, arm7dm, arm7dmi, arm8, arm810, strongarm,
strongarm110, strongarm1100, strongarm1110, fa526, fa626. The value
arm7tdmi is still supported. The values of -march that are
deprecated are: armv2,armv2a,armv3,armv3m,armv4.
Cheers, Ralph.
_______________________________________________
GCCSDK mailing list gcc@gccsdk.riscos.info
Bugzilla: http://www.riscos.info/bugzilla/index.cgi
List Info: http://www.riscos.info/mailman/listinfo/gcc
Main Page: http://www.riscos.info/index.php/GCCSDK
Thought might be of interest to the list; though it's probably not news
to the main contributors, there are lurkers like me.
https://gcc.gnu.org/gcc-6/changes.html#arm says
Support for revisions of the ARM architecture prior to ARMv4t has
been deprecated and will be removed in a future GCC release. The
-mcpu and -mtune values that are deprecated are: arm2, arm250, arm3,
arm6, arm60, arm600, arm610, arm620, arm7, arm7d, arm7di, arm70,
arm700, arm700i, arm710, arm720, arm710c, arm7100, arm7500,
arm7500fe, arm7m, arm7dm, arm7dmi, arm8, arm810, strongarm,
strongarm110, strongarm1100, strongarm1110, fa526, fa626. The value
arm7tdmi is still supported. The values of -march that are
deprecated are: armv2,armv2a,armv3,armv3m,armv4.
Cheers, Ralph.
_______________________________________________
GCCSDK mailing list gcc@gccsdk.riscos.info
Bugzilla: http://www.riscos.info/bugzilla/index.cgi
List Info: http://www.riscos.info/mailman/listinfo/gcc
Main Page: http://www.riscos.info/index.php/GCCSDK
Text drag & drop
Somewhere between 3492 and 3507 the ability to mark text, drag and drop
elsewhere has been lost. Also the find text does not mark the finds.
This was very useful! I hope it's temporary thing?
ARMX6, 5.23 (18-Mar-16)
--
Richard Torrens.
http://www.Torrens.org.uk for genealogy, natural history, wild food, walks, cats
and more!
elsewhere has been lost. Also the find text does not mark the finds.
This was very useful! I hope it's temporary thing?
ARMX6, 5.23 (18-Mar-16)
--
Richard Torrens.
http://www.Torrens.org.uk for genealogy, natural history, wild food, walks, cats
and more!
Monday, 25 April 2016
Re: Netsurf Programming
Forgot to CC the list earlier.
On Apr 19, 2016 7:36 PM, "Ashish Gupta" <ashmew2@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Larry.
>
> Yes the project is alive! (The last release was on 14th April 2016, 5 days ago).
>
> Are you building on a Linux platform? You mentioned an OpenSuse variant earlier .
>
> I had some problems when I first tried to build Netsurf as well, but I was able to build it manually along with all the libraries :
>
> http://source.netsurf-browser.org/netsurf.git/tree/Docs/BUILDING-GTK#n21
>
> Follow the guide till the end, making adjustments for your environment when necessary.
> If you get stuck again, feel free to post the output (compile error log) and I can take a look at it.
>
> Regards,
> ashmew2
>
> On Mon, Apr 18, 2016 at 7:51 PM, Larry Hatfield <larry.hatfield@hwatech.com> wrote:
>>
>> Ashish,
>>
>> Thanks for the welcome note. I was beginning to wonder whether the project was still being maintained. To that end, I did start down the path with another browser and have many hours now into customizing it for my needs. I am still interested in the project and I'll get connected in as much as I can.
>>
>> One disheartening thing is that I can not get the source to compile. I've resolved all dependencies and followed directions but I simply can't build it. That was another reason I assumed it had been abandoned...
>>
>> I was able to find an old binary install and gave it a try, but it was quite old and had many bugs/shortcomings, I'm sure it's much better now.
>>
>> If you happen to have another source of build instructions I would definately try again.
>>
>> Larry
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 18, 2016 at 5:06 AM, Ashish Gupta <ashmew2@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Larry!
>>>
>>> Disclaimer - I'm not an official Netsurf developer.
>>>
>>> Welcome to the community.
>>>
>>> In case you haven't already, I think joining #netsurf on Freenode IRC is a good way to get in touch with the devs actively.
>>>
>>> You should check out http://www.netsurf-browser.org/developers/
>>> And there's always the bug tracker : http://bugs.netsurf-browser.org/mantis/my_view_page.php
>>>
>>> In case you feel it's a bit quiet, don't be disheartened : ) Patience is key.
>>>
>>> Happy hacking!
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> ashmew2
>>>
>>> On Wed, Apr 13, 2016 at 3:58 PM, Larry Hatfield <larry.hatfield@hwatech.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hello,
>>>>
>>>> I would like to become involved in the netsurf project. Over my 30 years as a developer, I've focused largely on Xlib programming and making things lean and fast. Most recently I've been developing windows software for the agriculture industry.
>>>>
>>>> I've just recently gotten back to my true passion, unix development, and I found your browser project as I was looking for packages to add to a distro I'm trying to build based on opensuse and I was intrigued. Your description of the software is very much what I believe in so it's a good match I think.
>>>>
>>>> I see you are working on a windows version that I would be happy to contribute to or anything else you might need help with.
>>>>
>>>> I'm very much into the free/opensource thing, but my present company offering is a commercial product (a guy's gotta eat...)
>>>>
>>>> (ps My first thought about netsurf was to get in onto a raspi, but maybe you've already done that, I love those little powerhouses)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Let me know,
>>>>
>>>> Larry Hatfield
>>>>
>>>> Virus-free. www.avast.com
>>>
>>>
>>
>
Saturday, 23 April 2016
Updating Libhubbub
Hi all,
As part of the Google Summer of Code'14 program, I worked on updating the Libhubbub library to bring it in line with HTML5 specifications. No one was able for code review at that time , so the work was not merged. I would be glad if someone is able to review the work now.Reference for specifications: https://html.spec.whatwg.org/multipage/syntax.html
Wiki: http://wiki.netsurf-browser.org/LibHubbub
Wiki: http://wiki.netsurf-browser.org/LibHubbub
The wiki page might be a bit vague, but you will begin to understand it after you have complete understanding of where libhubbub is lagging behind the current specs. Apart from that, I apologise for the weird commit names. I will rename those as and when my exams are over and have enough time at my disposal.
I will be available on IRC if you have any suggestions and/or code review to give.I hope we can get this merged soon, and make Netsurf even better !
Best Regards,
Rupinder Singh Khokhar
Thursday, 21 April 2016
Re: [Rpcemu] RPCEmu and MacOSX
On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 03:37:12PM +0100, Martin wrote:
> In article <20160421123610.GD11090@chiark.greenend.org.uk>,
> Theo Markettos <theo@markettos.org.uk> wrote:
> > How about something like:
>
> > #!/bin/sh
> > PARENT_DIR=$(dirname $0)
> > HOSTFS_DIR=$HOME/Library/Application\ Support/RPCEmu/hostfs
> > cp -a $PARENT_DIR/source $HOSTFS_DIR/target
> > open /Applications/RPCEmu.app
>
> Thanks Theo, I think I can sort of follow what that is doing.
> The last two lines are pretty obvious - I hope the middle two lines work
> as the syntax is not (yet) obvious to me.
I'm just setting a couple of variables that we can use later on. That's not
strictly necessary, but just being tidy rather than using them in-place.
$(dirname $0) calls the 'dirname' command on $0 and returns the output as a
string. $0 gives the filename of our script so 'dirname $0' is the parent
of our script, like <Obey$Dir>
> Is the # a comment line?
Yes, and no.
It's called the 'shebang', and must be the first line of the file. It tells
the OS the location of the program that will interpret the script. In this
case it's /bin/sh (the Bourne shell), but it could be /usr/bin/python or
/usr/local/bin/brandy or whatever. You can alternatively do:
#!/usr/bin/env python
to find python anywhere (it'll be in different places on different systems)
[None of this is Mac specific, it's standard Unix shell scripting]
> Is the 'obey' file just a text file, called anything, with no suffix?
Suffix doesn't matter - though it's conventional to add .sh - but you'll
need to make it executable. You can do that from the Finder, or at a
terminal:
chmod +x my-script
> Yes indeed - I tried to follow your excellent instructions to the letter!
> The RPCEmu application is in Applications, and the data directory in
> Documents.
Not my instructions, but they are indeed very handy.
Theo
_______________________________________________
Rpcemu mailing list
Rpcemu@riscos.info
http://www.riscos.info/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/rpcemu
> In article <20160421123610.GD11090@chiark.greenend.org.uk>,
> Theo Markettos <theo@markettos.org.uk> wrote:
> > How about something like:
>
> > #!/bin/sh
> > PARENT_DIR=$(dirname $0)
> > HOSTFS_DIR=$HOME/Library/Application\ Support/RPCEmu/hostfs
> > cp -a $PARENT_DIR/source $HOSTFS_DIR/target
> > open /Applications/RPCEmu.app
>
> Thanks Theo, I think I can sort of follow what that is doing.
> The last two lines are pretty obvious - I hope the middle two lines work
> as the syntax is not (yet) obvious to me.
I'm just setting a couple of variables that we can use later on. That's not
strictly necessary, but just being tidy rather than using them in-place.
$(dirname $0) calls the 'dirname' command on $0 and returns the output as a
string. $0 gives the filename of our script so 'dirname $0' is the parent
of our script, like <Obey$Dir>
> Is the # a comment line?
Yes, and no.
It's called the 'shebang', and must be the first line of the file. It tells
the OS the location of the program that will interpret the script. In this
case it's /bin/sh (the Bourne shell), but it could be /usr/bin/python or
/usr/local/bin/brandy or whatever. You can alternatively do:
#!/usr/bin/env python
to find python anywhere (it'll be in different places on different systems)
[None of this is Mac specific, it's standard Unix shell scripting]
> Is the 'obey' file just a text file, called anything, with no suffix?
Suffix doesn't matter - though it's conventional to add .sh - but you'll
need to make it executable. You can do that from the Finder, or at a
terminal:
chmod +x my-script
> Yes indeed - I tried to follow your excellent instructions to the letter!
> The RPCEmu application is in Applications, and the data directory in
> Documents.
Not my instructions, but they are indeed very handy.
Theo
_______________________________________________
Rpcemu mailing list
Rpcemu@riscos.info
http://www.riscos.info/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/rpcemu
Re: [Rpcemu] RPCEmu and MacOSX
In article <20160421123610.GD11090@chiark.greenend.org.uk>,
Theo Markettos <theo@markettos.org.uk> wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 12:24:10PM +0100, Martin wrote:
> > On RISC OS, if I want to copy a file from the current directory in
> > Documents into another directory and then start an application in one
> > go, I just have to create an Obey file containing something like...
> >
> > *Copy <Obey$Dir>.source <Obey$Dir>.^.RPCEmu.hostfs.target F~C~V
> > *Run <Apps$Dir>.!RPCEmu
> >
> > How can that Obey file be translated to Mac speak?
> >
> > I am then planning to set RISC OS to run my application at boot, then
> > shut itself down if all ok.
> How about something like:
> #!/bin/sh
> PARENT_DIR=$(dirname $0)
> HOSTFS_DIR=$HOME/Library/Application\ Support/RPCEmu/hostfs
> cp -a $PARENT_DIR/source $HOSTFS_DIR/target
> open /Applications/RPCEmu.app
Thanks Theo, I think I can sort of follow what that is doing.
The last two lines are pretty obvious - I hope the middle two lines work
as the syntax is not (yet) obvious to me.
Is the # a comment line?
Is the 'obey' file just a text file, called anything, with no suffix?
> (that assumes you put RPCEmu in /Applications and didn't change the
> default hostfs location)
Yes indeed - I tried to follow your excellent instructions to the letter!
The RPCEmu application is in Applications, and the data directory in
Documents.
I also now have little RISC OS programs to open a Command window and do a
Shutdown, which I think will remove the need for FN keys.
Thanks
Martin
--
Martin Avison using a British Iyonix running RISC OS 5
and the Pluto mail and newsreader
_______________________________________________
Rpcemu mailing list
Rpcemu@riscos.info
http://www.riscos.info/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/rpcemu
Theo Markettos <theo@markettos.org.uk> wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 12:24:10PM +0100, Martin wrote:
> > On RISC OS, if I want to copy a file from the current directory in
> > Documents into another directory and then start an application in one
> > go, I just have to create an Obey file containing something like...
> >
> > *Copy <Obey$Dir>.source <Obey$Dir>.^.RPCEmu.hostfs.target F~C~V
> > *Run <Apps$Dir>.!RPCEmu
> >
> > How can that Obey file be translated to Mac speak?
> >
> > I am then planning to set RISC OS to run my application at boot, then
> > shut itself down if all ok.
> How about something like:
> #!/bin/sh
> PARENT_DIR=$(dirname $0)
> HOSTFS_DIR=$HOME/Library/Application\ Support/RPCEmu/hostfs
> cp -a $PARENT_DIR/source $HOSTFS_DIR/target
> open /Applications/RPCEmu.app
Thanks Theo, I think I can sort of follow what that is doing.
The last two lines are pretty obvious - I hope the middle two lines work
as the syntax is not (yet) obvious to me.
Is the # a comment line?
Is the 'obey' file just a text file, called anything, with no suffix?
> (that assumes you put RPCEmu in /Applications and didn't change the
> default hostfs location)
Yes indeed - I tried to follow your excellent instructions to the letter!
The RPCEmu application is in Applications, and the data directory in
Documents.
I also now have little RISC OS programs to open a Command window and do a
Shutdown, which I think will remove the need for FN keys.
Thanks
Martin
--
Martin Avison using a British Iyonix running RISC OS 5
and the Pluto mail and newsreader
_______________________________________________
Rpcemu mailing list
Rpcemu@riscos.info
http://www.riscos.info/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/rpcemu
Re: [Rpcemu] RPCEmu and MacOSX
On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 12:24:10PM +0100, Martin wrote:
> On RISC OS, if I want to copy a file from the current directory in
> Documents into another directory and then start an application in one go,
> I just have to create an Obey file containing something like...
>
> *Copy <Obey$Dir>.source <Obey$Dir>.^.RPCEmu.hostfs.target F~C~V
> *Run <Apps$Dir>.!RPCEmu
>
> How can that Obey file be translated to Mac speak?
>
> I am then planning to set RISC OS to run my application at boot, then
> shut itself down if all ok.
How about something like:
#!/bin/sh
PARENT_DIR=$(dirname $0)
HOSTFS_DIR=$HOME/Library/Application\ Support/RPCEmu/hostfs
cp -a $PARENT_DIR/source $HOSTFS_DIR/target
open /Applications/RPCEmu.app
(that assumes you put RPCEmu in /Applications and didn't change the default
hostfs location)
Theo
_______________________________________________
Rpcemu mailing list
Rpcemu@riscos.info
http://www.riscos.info/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/rpcemu
> On RISC OS, if I want to copy a file from the current directory in
> Documents into another directory and then start an application in one go,
> I just have to create an Obey file containing something like...
>
> *Copy <Obey$Dir>.source <Obey$Dir>.^.RPCEmu.hostfs.target F~C~V
> *Run <Apps$Dir>.!RPCEmu
>
> How can that Obey file be translated to Mac speak?
>
> I am then planning to set RISC OS to run my application at boot, then
> shut itself down if all ok.
How about something like:
#!/bin/sh
PARENT_DIR=$(dirname $0)
HOSTFS_DIR=$HOME/Library/Application\ Support/RPCEmu/hostfs
cp -a $PARENT_DIR/source $HOSTFS_DIR/target
open /Applications/RPCEmu.app
(that assumes you put RPCEmu in /Applications and didn't change the default
hostfs location)
Theo
_______________________________________________
Rpcemu mailing list
Rpcemu@riscos.info
http://www.riscos.info/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/rpcemu
Re: [Rpcemu] RPCEmu and MacOSX
In article <5573daae8frinfo@avisoft.f9.co.uk>,
Martin <rinfo@avisoft.f9.co.uk> wrote:
> I have just installed RPCEmu 0.8.14 on a Mac running OSX 10.10.5, and
> have been suprised how much progress I managed to make.
And a supplementary question, showing my ignorance of all things Mac.
On RISC OS, if I want to copy a file from the current directory in
Documents into another directory and then start an application in one go,
I just have to create an Obey file containing something like...
*Copy <Obey$Dir>.source <Obey$Dir>.^.RPCEmu.hostfs.target F~C~V
*Run <Apps$Dir>.!RPCEmu
How can that Obey file be translated to Mac speak?
I am then planning to set RISC OS to run my application at boot, then
shut itself down if all ok.
Martin
--
Martin Avison using a British Iyonix running RISC OS 5
and the Pluto mail and newsreader
_______________________________________________
Rpcemu mailing list
Rpcemu@riscos.info
http://www.riscos.info/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/rpcemu
Martin <rinfo@avisoft.f9.co.uk> wrote:
> I have just installed RPCEmu 0.8.14 on a Mac running OSX 10.10.5, and
> have been suprised how much progress I managed to make.
And a supplementary question, showing my ignorance of all things Mac.
On RISC OS, if I want to copy a file from the current directory in
Documents into another directory and then start an application in one go,
I just have to create an Obey file containing something like...
*Copy <Obey$Dir>.source <Obey$Dir>.^.RPCEmu.hostfs.target F~C~V
*Run <Apps$Dir>.!RPCEmu
How can that Obey file be translated to Mac speak?
I am then planning to set RISC OS to run my application at boot, then
shut itself down if all ok.
Martin
--
Martin Avison using a British Iyonix running RISC OS 5
and the Pluto mail and newsreader
_______________________________________________
Rpcemu mailing list
Rpcemu@riscos.info
http://www.riscos.info/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/rpcemu
Re: [Rpcemu] RPCEmu and MacOSX
On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 11:34:14PM +0100, Martin wrote:
> Did some Googling, and from my reading it seems that the System
> Preferences -> View -> Keyboard has an option to Enable "Use all F1, F2,
> etc. keys as standard function keys." With that selected the top keys
> alone return F1-F12, and with Fn they return the icon (speaker volume
> etc). With it NOT selected it should be the other way round, so Fn+F1-12
> should have worked ... but for me they adjusted sound etc regardless of
> whether Fn was pressed or not.
You could try Karabiner (formerly known as Keyremap4Macbook). This allows
quite complex key remapping, including Functional keys to F1..F12 and
various key combinations to make a middle click. It's very flexible (to the
extent that it has a search function through the all the possible key
mappings, and you do need it).
For three finger click = middle click I have MagicPrefs, which does
more gestures than Karabiner.
Theo
_______________________________________________
Rpcemu mailing list
Rpcemu@riscos.info
http://www.riscos.info/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/rpcemu
> Did some Googling, and from my reading it seems that the System
> Preferences -> View -> Keyboard has an option to Enable "Use all F1, F2,
> etc. keys as standard function keys." With that selected the top keys
> alone return F1-F12, and with Fn they return the icon (speaker volume
> etc). With it NOT selected it should be the other way round, so Fn+F1-12
> should have worked ... but for me they adjusted sound etc regardless of
> whether Fn was pressed or not.
You could try Karabiner (formerly known as Keyremap4Macbook). This allows
quite complex key remapping, including Functional keys to F1..F12 and
various key combinations to make a middle click. It's very flexible (to the
extent that it has a search function through the all the possible key
mappings, and you do need it).
For three finger click = middle click I have MagicPrefs, which does
more gestures than Karabiner.
Theo
_______________________________________________
Rpcemu mailing list
Rpcemu@riscos.info
http://www.riscos.info/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/rpcemu
Wednesday, 20 April 2016
Re: [Rpcemu] RPCEmu and MacOSX
In article <06F69923-932E-4C76-A15F-9AB2CEB0E738@hollypops.co.uk>,
Gerald Holdsworth <gerald@hollypops.co.uk> wrote:
> I'm still running 0.8.13, but on OSX 10.11.4. But, I've been using
> RPCEmu on the Mac since about OS X 10.7.
Probably close enough!
> Anyway, on my MacBook Air (2011 version), the F keys are used for
> various Mac functions (volume level, screen brightness, keyboard
> brightness, etc.), but can also be used in RISC OS. There is a setting
> hidden somewhere in the Mac OS X System Preferences that determine if
> the 'fn' key is required, or not, for these functions. I have it set so
> that I need to use the 'fn' key, and without the 'fn' key the normal F
> key gets passed to RISC OS (if any of that makes any sense!).
Did some Googling, and from my reading it seems that the System
Preferences -> View -> Keyboard has an option to Enable "Use all F1, F2,
etc. keys as standard function keys." With that selected the top keys
alone return F1-F12, and with Fn they return the icon (speaker volume
etc). With it NOT selected it should be the other way round, so Fn+F1-12
should have worked ... but for me they adjusted sound etc regardless of
whether Fn was pressed or not.
> As for mouse gestures - does your touch wireless mouse do two finger
> clicks?
No idea!
> On my laptop's pad, a single finger click is like the left hand
> mouse button (translates to RISC OS Select), and a two finger click is
> like the right hand mouse button (translates, at least on mine, to RISC
> OS Menu).
I will try the next time I can put two fingers on it!
> I haven't tried a three finger click...yet. However, I believe there is a
> way to get the RISC OS Adjust click by pressing a key and a mouse click
> - this I haven't found.
This is probably the least urgent.
Thanks
Martin
--
Martin Avison using a British Iyonix running RISC OS 5
and the Pluto mail and newsreader
_______________________________________________
Rpcemu mailing list
Rpcemu@riscos.info
http://www.riscos.info/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/rpcemu
Gerald Holdsworth <gerald@hollypops.co.uk> wrote:
> I'm still running 0.8.13, but on OSX 10.11.4. But, I've been using
> RPCEmu on the Mac since about OS X 10.7.
Probably close enough!
> Anyway, on my MacBook Air (2011 version), the F keys are used for
> various Mac functions (volume level, screen brightness, keyboard
> brightness, etc.), but can also be used in RISC OS. There is a setting
> hidden somewhere in the Mac OS X System Preferences that determine if
> the 'fn' key is required, or not, for these functions. I have it set so
> that I need to use the 'fn' key, and without the 'fn' key the normal F
> key gets passed to RISC OS (if any of that makes any sense!).
Did some Googling, and from my reading it seems that the System
Preferences -> View -> Keyboard has an option to Enable "Use all F1, F2,
etc. keys as standard function keys." With that selected the top keys
alone return F1-F12, and with Fn they return the icon (speaker volume
etc). With it NOT selected it should be the other way round, so Fn+F1-12
should have worked ... but for me they adjusted sound etc regardless of
whether Fn was pressed or not.
> As for mouse gestures - does your touch wireless mouse do two finger
> clicks?
No idea!
> On my laptop's pad, a single finger click is like the left hand
> mouse button (translates to RISC OS Select), and a two finger click is
> like the right hand mouse button (translates, at least on mine, to RISC
> OS Menu).
I will try the next time I can put two fingers on it!
> I haven't tried a three finger click...yet. However, I believe there is a
> way to get the RISC OS Adjust click by pressing a key and a mouse click
> - this I haven't found.
This is probably the least urgent.
Thanks
Martin
--
Martin Avison using a British Iyonix running RISC OS 5
and the Pluto mail and newsreader
_______________________________________________
Rpcemu mailing list
Rpcemu@riscos.info
http://www.riscos.info/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/rpcemu
[gccsdk] gperf
Has the gperf tool been compiled for ARMv7? Various links
on http://www.riscos.info/index.php/GCC
seem to lead nowhere.
--
Gavin Wraith (gavin@wra1th.plus.com)
Home page: http://www.wra1th.plus.com/
_______________________________________________
GCCSDK mailing list gcc@gccsdk.riscos.info
Bugzilla: http://www.riscos.info/bugzilla/index.cgi
List Info: http://www.riscos.info/mailman/listinfo/gcc
Main Page: http://www.riscos.info/index.php/GCCSDK
on http://www.riscos.info/index.php/GCC
seem to lead nowhere.
--
Gavin Wraith (gavin@wra1th.plus.com)
Home page: http://www.wra1th.plus.com/
_______________________________________________
GCCSDK mailing list gcc@gccsdk.riscos.info
Bugzilla: http://www.riscos.info/bugzilla/index.cgi
List Info: http://www.riscos.info/mailman/listinfo/gcc
Main Page: http://www.riscos.info/index.php/GCCSDK
Re: [Rpcemu] RPCEmu and MacOSX
Hi Martin,
I'm still running 0.8.13, but on OSX 10.11.4. But, I've been using RPCEmu on the Mac since about OS X 10.7.
Anyway, on my MacBook Air (2011 version), the F keys are used for various Mac functions (volume level, screen brightness, keyboard brightness, etc.), but can also be used in RISC OS. There is a setting hidden somewhere in the Mac OS X System Preferences that determine if the 'fn' key is required, or not, for these functions. I have it set so that I need to use the 'fn' key, and without the 'fn' key the normal F key gets passed to RISC OS (if any of that makes any sense!).
As for mouse gestures - does your touch wireless mouse do two finger clicks? On my laptop's pad, a single finger click is like the left hand mouse button (translates to RISC OS Select), and a two finger click is like the right hand mouse button (translates, at least on mine, to RISC OS Menu). I haven't tried a three finger click…yet. However, I believe there is a way to get the RISC OS Adjust click by pressing a key and a mouse click - this I haven't found.
Hope this all helps.
Cheers,
Gerald.
From the MacBook Air of Gerald Holdsworth
www.geraldholdsworth.co.uk
www.reptonresourcepage.co.uk
> On 20 Apr 2016, at 17:41, Martin <rinfo@avisoft.f9.co.uk> wrote:
>
> I have just installed RPCEmu 0.8.14 on a Mac running OSX 10.10.5, and
> have been suprised how much progress I managed to make. I installed the
> RO5.22 rom and matching HardDisc without any real problems, and it now
> boots nicely. The notes on the ROOL Wiki were invaluable.
>
> However, I did find some major usage problems probably caused by my lack
> of knowledge of OSX and Mac hardware.
>
> The keyboard is a smallish wireless one, probably a predecessor of the
> current Magic Keyboard, as the key layout looks very similar. It has F1
> to F12 along the bottom of the top row of keys ... but I tried many
> combinations of Shift, FN, Alt & Ctrl keys and none seemed able to get me
> to a command line (or window). The Mac user never uses F keys!
>
> The mouse is a touch wireless one, probably a predecessor of the current
> Magic Trackpad, as it looks very similar... but has no buttons at all. A
> sharp press anywhere on it seems to simulate a Select-click ok, but I
> have found no way to simulate either Menu-click or Adjust-click.
>
> I was hoping to set it up for one specific use so a Mac user could run a
> small program I have written, so Select-click will enable that, and I
> could write a small program to do TaskManager_Shutdown instead of using
> Menu->Shutdown or Shift-Ctrl-F12. However, it would be nice if I could
> occasionally use a command line and Menu and Adjust (even if I needed an
> app to emulate them!).
>
> Does anyone know whether TeamViewer will enable me to control RPCEmu on a
> Mac from my PC?
>
> Thanks for any clues!
>
> Martin
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rpcemu mailing list
> Rpcemu@riscos.info
> http://www.riscos.info/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/rpcemu
_______________________________________________
Rpcemu mailing list
Rpcemu@riscos.info
http://www.riscos.info/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/rpcemu
[Rpcemu] RPCEmu and MacOSX
I have just installed RPCEmu 0.8.14 on a Mac running OSX 10.10.5, and
have been suprised how much progress I managed to make. I installed the
RO5.22 rom and matching HardDisc without any real problems, and it now
boots nicely. The notes on the ROOL Wiki were invaluable.
However, I did find some major usage problems probably caused by my lack
of knowledge of OSX and Mac hardware.
The keyboard is a smallish wireless one, probably a predecessor of the
current Magic Keyboard, as the key layout looks very similar. It has F1
to F12 along the bottom of the top row of keys ... but I tried many
combinations of Shift, FN, Alt & Ctrl keys and none seemed able to get me
to a command line (or window). The Mac user never uses F keys!
The mouse is a touch wireless one, probably a predecessor of the current
Magic Trackpad, as it looks very similar... but has no buttons at all. A
sharp press anywhere on it seems to simulate a Select-click ok, but I
have found no way to simulate either Menu-click or Adjust-click.
I was hoping to set it up for one specific use so a Mac user could run a
small program I have written, so Select-click will enable that, and I
could write a small program to do TaskManager_Shutdown instead of using
Menu->Shutdown or Shift-Ctrl-F12. However, it would be nice if I could
occasionally use a command line and Menu and Adjust (even if I needed an
app to emulate them!).
Does anyone know whether TeamViewer will enable me to control RPCEmu on a
Mac from my PC?
Thanks for any clues!
Martin
_______________________________________________
Rpcemu mailing list
Rpcemu@riscos.info
http://www.riscos.info/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/rpcemu
have been suprised how much progress I managed to make. I installed the
RO5.22 rom and matching HardDisc without any real problems, and it now
boots nicely. The notes on the ROOL Wiki were invaluable.
However, I did find some major usage problems probably caused by my lack
of knowledge of OSX and Mac hardware.
The keyboard is a smallish wireless one, probably a predecessor of the
current Magic Keyboard, as the key layout looks very similar. It has F1
to F12 along the bottom of the top row of keys ... but I tried many
combinations of Shift, FN, Alt & Ctrl keys and none seemed able to get me
to a command line (or window). The Mac user never uses F keys!
The mouse is a touch wireless one, probably a predecessor of the current
Magic Trackpad, as it looks very similar... but has no buttons at all. A
sharp press anywhere on it seems to simulate a Select-click ok, but I
have found no way to simulate either Menu-click or Adjust-click.
I was hoping to set it up for one specific use so a Mac user could run a
small program I have written, so Select-click will enable that, and I
could write a small program to do TaskManager_Shutdown instead of using
Menu->Shutdown or Shift-Ctrl-F12. However, it would be nice if I could
occasionally use a command line and Menu and Adjust (even if I needed an
app to emulate them!).
Does anyone know whether TeamViewer will enable me to control RPCEmu on a
Mac from my PC?
Thanks for any clues!
Martin
_______________________________________________
Rpcemu mailing list
Rpcemu@riscos.info
http://www.riscos.info/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/rpcemu
Monday, 18 April 2016
Re: Weird page
In article <55723a11c3tim@timil.com>, Tim Hill <tim@timil.com> wrote:
> In article <557236259aLists@Torrens.org.uk>, Richard Torrens (lists)
> <Lists@Torrens.org.uk> wrote:
> > http://www.thehowleytavern.co.uk/menu.html
> > The menu contents do not appear.
> > But if you view the page as text, and run that, all is well! So I
> > can't see what is causing the problem.
> If you do that, you are viewing the page without its CSS file at
> http://www.thehowleytavern.co.uk/presentation/screen.css
> Is there something in there which isn't supported by Netsurf? A color
> declaration in a list item, perhaps? I'm only guessing. No time right
> now to debug someone else's CSS: #C4F1.
(Okay, that's now out of the way. Seventh!)
To test this and play with (learn about) the CSS file, I have saved the
files as
RAM::RamDisc0.$.01
RAM::RamDisc0.$.presentation.screen/css
'01' is the default name given to the original page when I saved it from
NetSurf. I created the directory 'presentation' to contain the CSS file
and so its relative path is correct.
Examination of the HTML reveals that the menu items use a table for
layout and in the CSS file on line 89 there is this
#menu_content table td { border-bottom:1px solid #B48B5F; color: #fff;
In other words, white text in any table and td contained within anything
that uses menu-content, which is the menu text. Changing that line to
#menu_content table td { border-bottom:1px solid #B48B5F; color: black;
makes the text appear. (Developers: when there's a name for a 'color',
please use it. 'white' is much easier to read than #fff or #ffffff and
your mistakes will be more obvious.)
I suspect this is modified by Javascript as there's loads of that kicking
around too so 'normal' browsers don't see white text on a white
background as NetSurf does.
--
Tim Hill
www.timil.com
web sites * multimedia * training
> In article <557236259aLists@Torrens.org.uk>, Richard Torrens (lists)
> <Lists@Torrens.org.uk> wrote:
> > http://www.thehowleytavern.co.uk/menu.html
> > The menu contents do not appear.
> > But if you view the page as text, and run that, all is well! So I
> > can't see what is causing the problem.
> If you do that, you are viewing the page without its CSS file at
> http://www.thehowleytavern.co.uk/presentation/screen.css
> Is there something in there which isn't supported by Netsurf? A color
> declaration in a list item, perhaps? I'm only guessing. No time right
> now to debug someone else's CSS: #C4F1.
(Okay, that's now out of the way. Seventh!)
To test this and play with (learn about) the CSS file, I have saved the
files as
RAM::RamDisc0.$.01
RAM::RamDisc0.$.presentation.screen/css
'01' is the default name given to the original page when I saved it from
NetSurf. I created the directory 'presentation' to contain the CSS file
and so its relative path is correct.
Examination of the HTML reveals that the menu items use a table for
layout and in the CSS file on line 89 there is this
#menu_content table td { border-bottom:1px solid #B48B5F; color: #fff;
In other words, white text in any table and td contained within anything
that uses menu-content, which is the menu text. Changing that line to
#menu_content table td { border-bottom:1px solid #B48B5F; color: black;
makes the text appear. (Developers: when there's a name for a 'color',
please use it. 'white' is much easier to read than #fff or #ffffff and
your mistakes will be more obvious.)
I suspect this is modified by Javascript as there's loads of that kicking
around too so 'normal' browsers don't see white text on a white
background as NetSurf does.
--
Tim Hill
www.timil.com
web sites * multimedia * training
Re: Netsurf Programming
Hi Larry!
Disclaimer - I'm not an official Netsurf developer.
Happy hacking!
Regards,
ashmew2
On Wed, Apr 13, 2016 at 3:58 PM, Larry Hatfield <larry.hatfield@hwatech.com> wrote:
Hello,I would like to become involved in the netsurf project. Over my 30 years as a developer, I've focused largely on Xlib programming and making things lean and fast. Most recently I've been developing windows software for the agriculture industry.I've just recently gotten back to my true passion, unix development, and I found your browser project as I was looking for packages to add to a distro I'm trying to build based on opensuse and I was intrigued. Your description of the software is very much what I believe in so it's a good match I think.I see you are working on a windows version that I would be happy to contribute to or anything else you might need help with.I'm very much into the free/opensource thing, but my present company offering is a commercial product (a guy's gotta eat...)(ps My first thought about netsurf was to get in onto a raspi, but maybe you've already done that, I love those little powerhouses)Let me know,Larry Hatfield
Sunday, 17 April 2016
Re: Weird page
In article <557236259aLists@Torrens.org.uk>, Richard Torrens (lists)
<Lists@Torrens.org.uk> wrote:
> http://www.thehowleytavern.co.uk/menu.html
> The menu contents do not appear.
> But if you view the page as text, and run that, all is well! So I can't
> see what is causing the problem.
If you do that, you are viewing the page without its CSS file at
http://www.thehowleytavern.co.uk/presentation/screen.css
Is there something in there which isn't supported by Netsurf? A color
declaration in a list item, perhaps? I'm only guessing. No time right now
to debug someone else's CSS: #C4F1.
--
Tim Hill
www.timil.com
web sites * multimedia * training
<Lists@Torrens.org.uk> wrote:
> http://www.thehowleytavern.co.uk/menu.html
> The menu contents do not appear.
> But if you view the page as text, and run that, all is well! So I can't
> see what is causing the problem.
If you do that, you are viewing the page without its CSS file at
http://www.thehowleytavern.co.uk/presentation/screen.css
Is there something in there which isn't supported by Netsurf? A color
declaration in a list item, perhaps? I'm only guessing. No time right now
to debug someone else's CSS: #C4F1.
--
Tim Hill
www.timil.com
web sites * multimedia * training
Weird page
http://www.thehowleytavern.co.uk/menu.html
The menu contents do not appear.
But if you view the page as text, and run that, all is well! So I can't
see what is causing the problem.
--
Richard Torrens.
http://www.Torrens.org.uk for genealogy, natural history, wild food, walks, cats
and more!
The menu contents do not appear.
But if you view the page as text, and run that, all is well! So I can't
see what is causing the problem.
--
Richard Torrens.
http://www.Torrens.org.uk for genealogy, natural history, wild food, walks, cats
and more!
Wednesday, 13 April 2016
Re: Netsurf Cache -- relocation tangent
In article <1fd5ae6f55.jim@abbeypress.net>,
Jim Nagel <netsurf@abbeypress.co.uk> wrote:
> Several months ago I got fed up with this, and also with time wasted
> by !Locate searching through all of !Cache. So on all my machines I
> made a new directory that comes alphabetically last: $._
I haven't actually got !Locate so I don't have that problem.
--
Stuart Winsor
Tools With A Mission
sending tools across the world
http://www.twam.co.uk/
Jim Nagel <netsurf@abbeypress.co.uk> wrote:
> Several months ago I got fed up with this, and also with time wasted
> by !Locate searching through all of !Cache. So on all my machines I
> made a new directory that comes alphabetically last: $._
I haven't actually got !Locate so I don't have that problem.
--
Stuart Winsor
Tools With A Mission
sending tools across the world
http://www.twam.co.uk/
Re: Netsurf refresh
On Wed, Apr 13, 2016 at 08:35:01PM +0100, Jim Nagel wrote:
> Vince M Hudd wrote on 13 Apr:
> > Ctrl-F5 - which may be unfamiliar, but is standard on all the browsers
> > I use (including NetSurf) - is the keystroke I use to reload pages
> > when working on websites because it *does* fetch a new version of the
> > page, rather than just reload it from a cache.
>
> Interactive help for the item on the Netsurf buttonbar does say
> "Reload". Does it do the same thing as Ctrl-F5 or not?
Vince's email is pretty clear.
B.
> Vince M Hudd wrote on 13 Apr:
> > Ctrl-F5 - which may be unfamiliar, but is standard on all the browsers
> > I use (including NetSurf) - is the keystroke I use to reload pages
> > when working on websites because it *does* fetch a new version of the
> > page, rather than just reload it from a cache.
>
> Interactive help for the item on the Netsurf buttonbar does say
> "Reload". Does it do the same thing as Ctrl-F5 or not?
Vince's email is pretty clear.
B.
Netsurf Cache
In article <20160413104528.GA24798@kyllikki.org>,
Vincent Sanders <vince@netsurf-browser.org> wrote:
> I will go over how this feature works once again.
[Snip]
Thanks Vincent for the long and detailed explanation of how Netsurf uses
the cache.
After over 45 years working with computers I understand that the use of
any computer resource is a trade-off with other resources, all of which
have to be balanced for optimum performance.
I have now delated the whole cache, and reset Netsurf to the default
values for disc of 1024MB and 28 days, and memory is set to 50MB.
I have also created a new directory called ~Temporary and moved !Cache
into it, and ensured it is seen during Boot. The ~Temporary directory can
be omitted from any backps, searches etc.
Time will tell what the effects of this are!
Thanks
Martin
Vincent Sanders <vince@netsurf-browser.org> wrote:
> I will go over how this feature works once again.
[Snip]
Thanks Vincent for the long and detailed explanation of how Netsurf uses
the cache.
After over 45 years working with computers I understand that the use of
any computer resource is a trade-off with other resources, all of which
have to be balanced for optimum performance.
I have now delated the whole cache, and reset Netsurf to the default
values for disc of 1024MB and 28 days, and memory is set to 50MB.
I have also created a new directory called ~Temporary and moved !Cache
into it, and ensured it is seen during Boot. The ~Temporary directory can
be omitted from any backps, searches etc.
Time will tell what the effects of this are!
Thanks
Martin
Re: Netsurf refresh
Vince M Hudd wrote on 13 Apr:
> Ctrl-F5 - which may be unfamiliar, but is standard on all the browsers
> I use (including NetSurf) - is the keystroke I use to reload pages
> when working on websites because it *does* fetch a new version of the
> page, rather than just reload it from a cache.
Interactive help for the item on the Netsurf buttonbar does say
"Reload". Does it do the same thing as Ctrl-F5 or not?
--
Jim Nagel www.archivemag.co.uk
> Ctrl-F5 - which may be unfamiliar, but is standard on all the browsers
> I use (including NetSurf) - is the keystroke I use to reload pages
> when working on websites because it *does* fetch a new version of the
> page, rather than just reload it from a cache.
Interactive help for the item on the Netsurf buttonbar does say
"Reload". Does it do the same thing as Ctrl-F5 or not?
--
Jim Nagel www.archivemag.co.uk
Re: Netsurf refresh
Jim Nagel <netsurf@abbeypress.co.uk> wrote:
[Reloading a page didn't load a new version]
> (Hmm, just noticed from a search of Netsurf menu that the shortcut for
> "Navigate > Reload page" is Ctrl-F5 -- I didn't try that unfamiliar
> keystroke, but presume it does same as above.
FWIW, Ctril-F5 - which may be unfamiliar, but is standard on all the
browsers I use (including NetSurf) - is the keystroke I use to reload pages
when working on websites because it *does* fetch a new version of the page,
rather than just reload it from a cache.
--
Vince M Hudd
Soft Rock Software
[Reloading a page didn't load a new version]
> (Hmm, just noticed from a search of Netsurf menu that the shortcut for
> "Navigate > Reload page" is Ctrl-F5 -- I didn't try that unfamiliar
> keystroke, but presume it does same as above.
FWIW, Ctril-F5 - which may be unfamiliar, but is standard on all the
browsers I use (including NetSurf) - is the keystroke I use to reload pages
when working on websites because it *does* fetch a new version of the page,
rather than just reload it from a cache.
--
Vince M Hudd
Soft Rock Software
Netsurf Programming
Hello,
I would like to become involved in the netsurf project. Over my 30 years as a developer, I've focused largely on Xlib programming and making things lean and fast. Most recently I've been developing windows software for the agriculture industry.
I've just recently gotten back to my true passion, unix development, and I found your browser project as I was looking for packages to add to a distro I'm trying to build based on opensuse and I was intrigued. Your description of the software is very much what I believe in so it's a good match I think.
I see you are working on a windows version that I would be happy to contribute to or anything else you might need help with.
I'm very much into the free/opensource thing, but my present company offering is a commercial product (a guy's gotta eat...)
(ps My first thought about netsurf was to get in onto a raspi, but maybe you've already done that, I love those little powerhouses)
Let me know,
Larry Hatfield
Netsurf refresh
This might or might not be related to the issues Vincent Sanders talks
about in the current thread "Netsurf cache".
I recently updated the home page of my own website. Then tested
viewing it with Netsurf. It kept serving up the old page, despite my
clicking Netsurf's Reload button -- with Select (to reload page), then
again with Adjust (to "reload page and all the objects it contains").
Is this non-update to be expected? Am I misunderstanding the use of
Reload?
(Hmm, just noticed from a search of Netsurf menu that the shortcut for
"Navigate > Reload page" is Ctrl-F5 -- I didn't try that unfamiliar
keystroke, but presume it does same as above. Is Ctrl-R used at all?)
I finally deleted the history file; then my revised page displayed.
Shouldn't reload trump history?
Using Netsurf #3433 at the moment.
--
Jim Nagel www.archivemag.co.uk
about in the current thread "Netsurf cache".
I recently updated the home page of my own website. Then tested
viewing it with Netsurf. It kept serving up the old page, despite my
clicking Netsurf's Reload button -- with Select (to reload page), then
again with Adjust (to "reload page and all the objects it contains").
Is this non-update to be expected? Am I misunderstanding the use of
Reload?
(Hmm, just noticed from a search of Netsurf menu that the shortcut for
"Navigate > Reload page" is Ctrl-F5 -- I didn't try that unfamiliar
keystroke, but presume it does same as above. Is Ctrl-R used at all?)
I finally deleted the history file; then my revised page displayed.
Shouldn't reload trump history?
Using Netsurf #3433 at the moment.
--
Jim Nagel www.archivemag.co.uk
Re: Netsurf Cache
On Wed, Apr 13, 2016 at 12:06:04PM +0100, David Pitt wrote:
>
> How about this from a Titanium :-
>
> (75142.820000) content/llcache.c:3402 llcache_finalise: Backing store wrote
> 2590212 bytes in 1394 ms (average 1858114 bytes/second)
1.8MB/sec to an SSD is nothing to write home about. I'd expect at least
20MB/sec from a modern OS on a spinning disc.
B.
>
> How about this from a Titanium :-
>
> (75142.820000) content/llcache.c:3402 llcache_finalise: Backing store wrote
> 2590212 bytes in 1394 ms (average 1858114 bytes/second)
1.8MB/sec to an SSD is nothing to write home about. I'd expect at least
20MB/sec from a modern OS on a spinning disc.
B.
Re: Netsurf Cache
Vincent Sanders, on 13 Apr, wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 12, 2016 at 02:49:39PM +0100, netsurf@avisoft.f9.co.uk wrote:
> > There was much discussion about a year ago about the cache performance
> > on RISC OS, and there were some code changes, but I would like to add
> > the results of some investigations of the Netsurf v3.4 cache on my
> > Iyonix, running RISC OS 5.23 (11 Oct 2015).
>
> I am beginning to think this feature should never have been enabled
> for hoplessly legacy operating systems such as RISC OS.
OTOH as RISC OS lumbers into the 21st century with modern hardware that
cache comes into its own.
How about this from a Titanium :-
(75142.820000) content/llcache.c:3402 llcache_finalise: Backing store wrote
2590212 bytes in 1394 ms (average 1858114 bytes/second)
I haven't done anything scientific but my impression is that the cache is of
worthwhile benefit to NetSurf on the Titanium. (The Titanium has RISC OS on
an SSD via ADFS and SATA.)
HTH.
--
David Pitt
> On Tue, Apr 12, 2016 at 02:49:39PM +0100, netsurf@avisoft.f9.co.uk wrote:
> > There was much discussion about a year ago about the cache performance
> > on RISC OS, and there were some code changes, but I would like to add
> > the results of some investigations of the Netsurf v3.4 cache on my
> > Iyonix, running RISC OS 5.23 (11 Oct 2015).
>
> I am beginning to think this feature should never have been enabled
> for hoplessly legacy operating systems such as RISC OS.
OTOH as RISC OS lumbers into the 21st century with modern hardware that
cache comes into its own.
How about this from a Titanium :-
(75142.820000) content/llcache.c:3402 llcache_finalise: Backing store wrote
2590212 bytes in 1394 ms (average 1858114 bytes/second)
I haven't done anything scientific but my impression is that the cache is of
worthwhile benefit to NetSurf on the Titanium. (The Titanium has RISC OS on
an SSD via ADFS and SATA.)
HTH.
--
David Pitt
Re: Netsurf Cache
On Tue, Apr 12, 2016 at 02:49:39PM +0100, netsurf@avisoft.f9.co.uk wrote:
> There was much discussion about a year ago about the cache performance on
> RISC OS, and there were some code changes, but I would like to add the
> results of some investigations of the Netsurf v3.4 cache on my Iyonix,
> running RISC OS 5.23 (11 Oct 2015).
I am beginning to think this feature should never have been enabled
for hoplessly legacy operating systems such as RISC OS.
I will go over how this feature works once again. This is in response
to this message but is, as usual, aimed at all users.
To be clear a cache in any computer program trades one resource for
another.
Generally a web browser will have numerous caches for different
uses. In NetSurf we have three main caches:
1. one held in RAM for decoded images
This cache trades processor time (used to decode images from
compressed source formats like jpegs) for memory (to hold the
decoded images).
Without this cache scrolling a page would be glacial as every
time an image needs to be plotted, even if it is only a single
pixel of it, we would need to decode the entire source image
2. a cache for source objects (the stuff downloaded from web servers) held in memory
This cache trades memory for network bandwidth used downloading
source objects.
Without this every time a page navigation happens within a
website all the css, images, javascript etc that did not chnage
must be downloaded again which would quickly make browsing
unusable.
3. a cache of source objects held on disc.
This cache trades disc space and bandwidth for memory.
Although not immediately obvious the memory is that from the
previous cache and indirectly could be seen as network bandwidth
used. This is known as a cache hierachy where one cache backs
another.
The memory cache size setting deals with the first two of these caches
and the disc cache settings the third.
>
> In the past I had problems with the cache taking large amounts of disc
> space, and the resulting long backup times for !Boot, so my current
> settings are 10MB space, expiring after 2 days.
The average web page is now well over 2 megabytes [1] and is growing
rapidly all the time. You would be much better served having no
persistant storage (disc) cache enabled at all by setting its size to
zero than by a small one like this.
As I keep emphasising again and again the cache is a trade of one
resource for another in an attempt to reduce the oveall time to
perform the action of visiting a web page. If you are not able to make
that trade a net profitable transaction you are better off not doing
it at all.
The RAM, CPU and disc overhead for enabling the cache greatly exceeds
your settings which probably require a minimum of a few hundred
megabytes and several weeks to make the trade worthwile on RISC
OS. In fact I will add a feature request to the tracker to have a
minimum viable size for the cache size options.
I fear your expectations around sizes of resources are a little out of
date. The default cache sizes on PC platforms is 128 megabytes of
memory and a gigabyte of disc. Even these are pretty restrained, for
example: my desktop has a recently started copy of chrome with a
handful of tabs open and thats reporting well over a gigabyte of
memory used and several gigabytes of disc.
It is not uncommon for standard PCs to have 8 gigabytes of memory and
a terrabyte of hard drive space accessed at rates measured in
hundreds of megabytes a second. I know RISC OS has no hope of getting
anywhere near such resources but it must be understood that the
modern web is orientated around systems of this magnitude of capability.
[1] http://www.soasta.com/blog/page-bloat-average-web-page-2-mb/
>
> However, the actual space usage was 45MB (as measured by Filer Count),
> and it contained 210 files. What was more difficult to find was that
> there were 7,298 directories with 8 levels, which occupied another 14MB,
> of which 6,412 contained no files at any lower level. So only 886
> directories actually contained the 210 files of cached data. Enumeration
> of the cache took about 2 minutes.
>
It is possible you had a cache left over from an earlier version of
NetSurf where small files were stored in separate files. Cache
improvements merge all smaller files into a few large index files and
only use the directories for larger files.
Regardless the directories are not accounted for as on most OS they
are a very low cost resource and are never enumerated. There is a well
known "cache" indicator file created which on most systems is used to
indicate to other software that the contents of the directory are not
at all "valuble" and may be discarded at will and should not be
enumerated.
> I decided to delete all 6,412 directories that contained no data, saving
> about 12MB of disc space. More importantly, counting or enumerating all
> the cache now takes about 7 seconds. There are still the same number of
> files and cached bytes.
you can always delete the entire cache (without netsurf running) at
any time without having any impact at all except it will require all
source files to be retrieved from the network.
>
> Netsurf itself still seems to work, but I have not noticed any change in
> performance.
>
as already stated: with those settings any possible long term benefit
you might gain is being lost to overhead as RISC OS disc system is generally
poor.
> So, some questions:
>
> - When are cached files deleted to meet the configured size & expiry?
The cache is pruned only when adding a new entry which causes the
overall cache usage to exceed the set level. at that point the least
"valuble" objects are discarded untill the size drops below the
desired size. This process is subject to 10% hysteresis to avoid
excessive thrashing.
No account is taken of the overheads like directory size or block
sizes in the usage caclulations on the assumption they will be small
compared to the cached data and overheads are computationaly
expensive to determine for little gain.
> - Are directories included in the space used?
no
> - Are directories ever deleted? If so, when?
no
> - Will deletion of empty directories cause any problems for Netsurf?
no
>
> I have looked at the help ... but that says that files are not deleted by
> Netsurf, and makes no mention of directories. It also refers to a
> 'Perform maintenance' button which can be used to delete redundant files
> ... but this is nowhere to be seen!
The help and manual are out of date and refer to long since removed
functionality. It might be useful to include a "purge" cache
functionality for security reasons and perhaps ensure integrity when
the cache size values are changed. again a feature requiest to cover
this will be created.
>
> Martin
>
>
>
--
Regards Vincent
http://www.kyllikki.org/
> There was much discussion about a year ago about the cache performance on
> RISC OS, and there were some code changes, but I would like to add the
> results of some investigations of the Netsurf v3.4 cache on my Iyonix,
> running RISC OS 5.23 (11 Oct 2015).
I am beginning to think this feature should never have been enabled
for hoplessly legacy operating systems such as RISC OS.
I will go over how this feature works once again. This is in response
to this message but is, as usual, aimed at all users.
To be clear a cache in any computer program trades one resource for
another.
Generally a web browser will have numerous caches for different
uses. In NetSurf we have three main caches:
1. one held in RAM for decoded images
This cache trades processor time (used to decode images from
compressed source formats like jpegs) for memory (to hold the
decoded images).
Without this cache scrolling a page would be glacial as every
time an image needs to be plotted, even if it is only a single
pixel of it, we would need to decode the entire source image
2. a cache for source objects (the stuff downloaded from web servers) held in memory
This cache trades memory for network bandwidth used downloading
source objects.
Without this every time a page navigation happens within a
website all the css, images, javascript etc that did not chnage
must be downloaded again which would quickly make browsing
unusable.
3. a cache of source objects held on disc.
This cache trades disc space and bandwidth for memory.
Although not immediately obvious the memory is that from the
previous cache and indirectly could be seen as network bandwidth
used. This is known as a cache hierachy where one cache backs
another.
The memory cache size setting deals with the first two of these caches
and the disc cache settings the third.
>
> In the past I had problems with the cache taking large amounts of disc
> space, and the resulting long backup times for !Boot, so my current
> settings are 10MB space, expiring after 2 days.
The average web page is now well over 2 megabytes [1] and is growing
rapidly all the time. You would be much better served having no
persistant storage (disc) cache enabled at all by setting its size to
zero than by a small one like this.
As I keep emphasising again and again the cache is a trade of one
resource for another in an attempt to reduce the oveall time to
perform the action of visiting a web page. If you are not able to make
that trade a net profitable transaction you are better off not doing
it at all.
The RAM, CPU and disc overhead for enabling the cache greatly exceeds
your settings which probably require a minimum of a few hundred
megabytes and several weeks to make the trade worthwile on RISC
OS. In fact I will add a feature request to the tracker to have a
minimum viable size for the cache size options.
I fear your expectations around sizes of resources are a little out of
date. The default cache sizes on PC platforms is 128 megabytes of
memory and a gigabyte of disc. Even these are pretty restrained, for
example: my desktop has a recently started copy of chrome with a
handful of tabs open and thats reporting well over a gigabyte of
memory used and several gigabytes of disc.
It is not uncommon for standard PCs to have 8 gigabytes of memory and
a terrabyte of hard drive space accessed at rates measured in
hundreds of megabytes a second. I know RISC OS has no hope of getting
anywhere near such resources but it must be understood that the
modern web is orientated around systems of this magnitude of capability.
[1] http://www.soasta.com/blog/page-bloat-average-web-page-2-mb/
>
> However, the actual space usage was 45MB (as measured by Filer Count),
> and it contained 210 files. What was more difficult to find was that
> there were 7,298 directories with 8 levels, which occupied another 14MB,
> of which 6,412 contained no files at any lower level. So only 886
> directories actually contained the 210 files of cached data. Enumeration
> of the cache took about 2 minutes.
>
It is possible you had a cache left over from an earlier version of
NetSurf where small files were stored in separate files. Cache
improvements merge all smaller files into a few large index files and
only use the directories for larger files.
Regardless the directories are not accounted for as on most OS they
are a very low cost resource and are never enumerated. There is a well
known "cache" indicator file created which on most systems is used to
indicate to other software that the contents of the directory are not
at all "valuble" and may be discarded at will and should not be
enumerated.
> I decided to delete all 6,412 directories that contained no data, saving
> about 12MB of disc space. More importantly, counting or enumerating all
> the cache now takes about 7 seconds. There are still the same number of
> files and cached bytes.
you can always delete the entire cache (without netsurf running) at
any time without having any impact at all except it will require all
source files to be retrieved from the network.
>
> Netsurf itself still seems to work, but I have not noticed any change in
> performance.
>
as already stated: with those settings any possible long term benefit
you might gain is being lost to overhead as RISC OS disc system is generally
poor.
> So, some questions:
>
> - When are cached files deleted to meet the configured size & expiry?
The cache is pruned only when adding a new entry which causes the
overall cache usage to exceed the set level. at that point the least
"valuble" objects are discarded untill the size drops below the
desired size. This process is subject to 10% hysteresis to avoid
excessive thrashing.
No account is taken of the overheads like directory size or block
sizes in the usage caclulations on the assumption they will be small
compared to the cached data and overheads are computationaly
expensive to determine for little gain.
> - Are directories included in the space used?
no
> - Are directories ever deleted? If so, when?
no
> - Will deletion of empty directories cause any problems for Netsurf?
no
>
> I have looked at the help ... but that says that files are not deleted by
> Netsurf, and makes no mention of directories. It also refers to a
> 'Perform maintenance' button which can be used to delete redundant files
> ... but this is nowhere to be seen!
The help and manual are out of date and refer to long since removed
functionality. It might be useful to include a "purge" cache
functionality for security reasons and perhaps ensure integrity when
the cache size values are changed. again a feature requiest to cover
this will be created.
>
> Martin
>
>
>
--
Regards Vincent
http://www.kyllikki.org/
Tuesday, 12 April 2016
Re: Netsurf Cache -- relocation tangent
Richard Porter wrote on 12 Apr:
> I exclude any cache directories from backups. Ditto Scrapdirs.
When you do a search, however, !Locate so far lacks the ability to
exclude specified directories. That's what decided me to move !Cache
and !Scrap to the very end of the root directory. !Locate used to
spend ages hunting through them. Now I can simply abort the search
before it gets to the end.
--
Jim Nagel www.archivemag.co.uk
> I exclude any cache directories from backups. Ditto Scrapdirs.
When you do a search, however, !Locate so far lacks the ability to
exclude specified directories. That's what decided me to move !Cache
and !Scrap to the very end of the root directory. !Locate used to
spend ages hunting through them. Now I can simply abort the search
before it gets to the end.
--
Jim Nagel www.archivemag.co.uk
Re: Netsurf Cache -- relocation tangent
In article <485cc96f55.ricp@user.minijem.plus.com>,
Richard Porter <ricp@minijem.plus.com> wrote:
> I exclude any cache directories from backups. Ditto ScrapDirs.
Same here, there is no point.
--
Stuart Winsor
Tools With A Mission
sending tools across the world
http://www.twam.co.uk/
Richard Porter <ricp@minijem.plus.com> wrote:
> I exclude any cache directories from backups. Ditto ScrapDirs.
Same here, there is no point.
--
Stuart Winsor
Tools With A Mission
sending tools across the world
http://www.twam.co.uk/
Re: Netsurf Cache -- relocation tangent
On 12 Apr 2016 Richard Porter <ricp@minijem.plus.com> wrote:
> On 12 Apr 2016 Jim Nagel wrote:
>> Martin Avison wrote on 12 Apr:
>>> ... problems with the cache taking large amounts of disc
>>> space, and the resulting long backup times for !Boot ...
>> Several months ago I got fed up with this, and also with time wasted
>> by !Locate searching through all of !Cache. So on all my machines I
>> made a new directory that comes alphabetically last: $._
>> !Cache and !Scrap and !Newsdir now live there, with appropriate
>> pointers in the old places. Works well.
> I exclude any cache directories from backups. Ditto ScrapDirs.
Doesn't everyone? :-)
Best wishes,
Peter.
--
Peter Young (zfc Os) and family
Prestbury, Cheltenham, Glos. GL52, England
http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk
pnyoung@ormail.co.uk
> On 12 Apr 2016 Jim Nagel wrote:
>> Martin Avison wrote on 12 Apr:
>>> ... problems with the cache taking large amounts of disc
>>> space, and the resulting long backup times for !Boot ...
>> Several months ago I got fed up with this, and also with time wasted
>> by !Locate searching through all of !Cache. So on all my machines I
>> made a new directory that comes alphabetically last: $._
>> !Cache and !Scrap and !Newsdir now live there, with appropriate
>> pointers in the old places. Works well.
> I exclude any cache directories from backups. Ditto ScrapDirs.
Doesn't everyone? :-)
Best wishes,
Peter.
--
Peter Young (zfc Os) and family
Prestbury, Cheltenham, Glos. GL52, England
http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk
pnyoung@ormail.co.uk
Re: Netsurf Cache -- relocation tangent
On 12 Apr 2016 Jim Nagel wrote:
> Martin Avison wrote on 12 Apr:
>> ... problems with the cache taking large amounts of disc
>> space, and the resulting long backup times for !Boot ...
> Several months ago I got fed up with this, and also with time wasted
> by !Locate searching through all of !Cache. So on all my machines I
> made a new directory that comes alphabetically last: $._
> !Cache and !Scrap and !Newsdir now live there, with appropriate
> pointers in the old places. Works well.
I exclude any cache directories from backups. Ditto ScrapDirs.
Richard
--
Richard Porter http://www.minijem.plus.com/
Skype: minijem2 mailto:ricp@minijem.plus.com
I don't want a "user experience" - I just want stuff that works.
> Martin Avison wrote on 12 Apr:
>> ... problems with the cache taking large amounts of disc
>> space, and the resulting long backup times for !Boot ...
> Several months ago I got fed up with this, and also with time wasted
> by !Locate searching through all of !Cache. So on all my machines I
> made a new directory that comes alphabetically last: $._
> !Cache and !Scrap and !Newsdir now live there, with appropriate
> pointers in the old places. Works well.
I exclude any cache directories from backups. Ditto ScrapDirs.
Richard
--
Richard Porter http://www.minijem.plus.com/
Skype: minijem2 mailto:ricp@minijem.plus.com
I don't want a "user experience" - I just want stuff that works.
Re: Netsurf Cache -- relocation tangent
In article <1fd5ae6f55.jim@abbeypress.net>,
Jim Nagel <netsurf@abbeypress.co.uk> wrote:
> So on all my machines I made a new directory that comes alphabetically
> last: $._
That may well not come last on all filing systems, so no-one make that
assumption.
Jim doesn't specify what FS(s) all his machines are using.
I discovered this when devising a system for ensuring the completeness of
my back-ups by testing for the presence of a specific (last) file or
directory. As an example, SDFS and Fat32fs differ markedly in the order
they copy items elsewhere.
Implications probably not mission-critical in Jim's particular case, but
are in mine!
Best wishes,
John
--
| John Williams
| johnrw@ukgateway.net
Names for Soul Band:- Soul Beneficiary *
Jim Nagel <netsurf@abbeypress.co.uk> wrote:
> So on all my machines I made a new directory that comes alphabetically
> last: $._
That may well not come last on all filing systems, so no-one make that
assumption.
Jim doesn't specify what FS(s) all his machines are using.
I discovered this when devising a system for ensuring the completeness of
my back-ups by testing for the presence of a specific (last) file or
directory. As an example, SDFS and Fat32fs differ markedly in the order
they copy items elsewhere.
Implications probably not mission-critical in Jim's particular case, but
are in mine!
Best wishes,
John
--
| John Williams
| johnrw@ukgateway.net
Names for Soul Band:- Soul Beneficiary *
Re: Netsurf Cache -- relocation tangent
Martin Avison wrote on 12 Apr:
> ... problems with the cache taking large amounts of disc
> space, and the resulting long backup times for !Boot ...
Several months ago I got fed up with this, and also with time wasted
by !Locate searching through all of !Cache. So on all my machines I
made a new directory that comes alphabetically last: $._
!Cache and !Scrap and !Newsdir now live there, with appropriate
pointers in the old places. Works well.
--
Jim Nagel www.archivemag.co.uk
Abbey Press 32 Norbins Rd (01458) 83 3603
Glastonbury BA6 9JG pocket 0797 415 3861
>> before emailing large files (>1Mb), please ask me for FTP details
> ... problems with the cache taking large amounts of disc
> space, and the resulting long backup times for !Boot ...
Several months ago I got fed up with this, and also with time wasted
by !Locate searching through all of !Cache. So on all my machines I
made a new directory that comes alphabetically last: $._
!Cache and !Scrap and !Newsdir now live there, with appropriate
pointers in the old places. Works well.
--
Jim Nagel www.archivemag.co.uk
Abbey Press 32 Norbins Rd (01458) 83 3603
Glastonbury BA6 9JG pocket 0797 415 3861
>> before emailing large files (>1Mb), please ask me for FTP details
Netsurf Cache
There was much discussion about a year ago about the cache performance on
RISC OS, and there were some code changes, but I would like to add the
results of some investigations of the Netsurf v3.4 cache on my Iyonix,
running RISC OS 5.23 (11 Oct 2015).
In the past I had problems with the cache taking large amounts of disc
space, and the resulting long backup times for !Boot, so my current
settings are 10MB space, expiring after 2 days.
However, the actual space usage was 45MB (as measured by Filer Count),
and it contained 210 files. What was more difficult to find was that
there were 7,298 directories with 8 levels, which occupied another 14MB,
of which 6,412 contained no files at any lower level. So only 886
directories actually contained the 210 files of cached data. Enumeration
of the cache took about 2 minutes.
I decided to delete all 6,412 directories that contained no data, saving
about 12MB of disc space. More importantly, counting or enumerating all
the cache now takes about 7 seconds. There are still the same number of
files and cached bytes.
Netsurf itself still seems to work, but I have not noticed any change in
performance.
So, some questions:
- When are cached files deleted to meet the configured size & expiry?
- Are directories included in the space used?
- Are directories ever deleted? If so, when?
- Will deletion of empty directories cause any problems for Netsurf?
I have looked at the help ... but that says that files are not deleted by
Netsurf, and makes no mention of directories. It also refers to a
'Perform maintenance' button which can be used to delete redundant files
... but this is nowhere to be seen!
Martin
RISC OS, and there were some code changes, but I would like to add the
results of some investigations of the Netsurf v3.4 cache on my Iyonix,
running RISC OS 5.23 (11 Oct 2015).
In the past I had problems with the cache taking large amounts of disc
space, and the resulting long backup times for !Boot, so my current
settings are 10MB space, expiring after 2 days.
However, the actual space usage was 45MB (as measured by Filer Count),
and it contained 210 files. What was more difficult to find was that
there were 7,298 directories with 8 levels, which occupied another 14MB,
of which 6,412 contained no files at any lower level. So only 886
directories actually contained the 210 files of cached data. Enumeration
of the cache took about 2 minutes.
I decided to delete all 6,412 directories that contained no data, saving
about 12MB of disc space. More importantly, counting or enumerating all
the cache now takes about 7 seconds. There are still the same number of
files and cached bytes.
Netsurf itself still seems to work, but I have not noticed any change in
performance.
So, some questions:
- When are cached files deleted to meet the configured size & expiry?
- Are directories included in the space used?
- Are directories ever deleted? If so, when?
- Will deletion of empty directories cause any problems for Netsurf?
I have looked at the help ... but that says that files are not deleted by
Netsurf, and makes no mention of directories. It also refers to a
'Perform maintenance' button which can be used to delete redundant files
... but this is nowhere to be seen!
Martin
Monday, 11 April 2016
Re: Photos not showing.
In article <556e9cc96dLists@Torrens.org.uk>, Richard Torrens (lists)
<Lists@Torrens.org.uk> wrote:
> The page
> http://waywardwanderers.edicypages.com/blog/dalwood-yarty-valley fails
> to show photos. But lookinbg at the html, the path to the photos seems
> good. e.g. therei s a link
> href="/photos/Smeatharpe%2018%20Aug.%2013.IMG_5635_large.jpg"
> class="edys-gallery-item"
> data-original-url="/photos/Smeatharpe%2018%20Aug.%2013.IMG_5635.jpg"
> rel=""><img
> src="/photos/Smeatharpe%2018%20Aug.%2013.IMG_5635_medium.jpg"
> border="0" class="edys-gallery-image" alt="" /></a>
> Both the thumbnail and large photos are called correctly and are there.
> i.e.
> http://waywardwanderers.edicypages.com/photos/Smeatharpe%2018%20Aug.%2013.IMG_5635_large.jpg
> http://waywardwanderers.edicypages.com/photos/Smeatharpe%2018%20Aug.%2013.IMG_5635_medium.jpg
> However - they don't show in Crome either - so it may be a css problem?
Seems to have healed? They are linking from the home page here. #3403
--
Tim Hill
www.timil.com
web sites * multimedia * training
<Lists@Torrens.org.uk> wrote:
> The page
> http://waywardwanderers.edicypages.com/blog/dalwood-yarty-valley fails
> to show photos. But lookinbg at the html, the path to the photos seems
> good. e.g. therei s a link
> href="/photos/Smeatharpe%2018%20Aug.%2013.IMG_5635_large.jpg"
> class="edys-gallery-item"
> data-original-url="/photos/Smeatharpe%2018%20Aug.%2013.IMG_5635.jpg"
> rel=""><img
> src="/photos/Smeatharpe%2018%20Aug.%2013.IMG_5635_medium.jpg"
> border="0" class="edys-gallery-image" alt="" /></a>
> Both the thumbnail and large photos are called correctly and are there.
> i.e.
> http://waywardwanderers.edicypages.com/photos/Smeatharpe%2018%20Aug.%2013.IMG_5635_large.jpg
> http://waywardwanderers.edicypages.com/photos/Smeatharpe%2018%20Aug.%2013.IMG_5635_medium.jpg
> However - they don't show in Crome either - so it may be a css problem?
Seems to have healed? They are linking from the home page here. #3403
--
Tim Hill
www.timil.com
web sites * multimedia * training
Sunday, 10 April 2016
Photos not showing.
The page
http://waywardwanderers.edicypages.com/blog/dalwood-yarty-valley
fails to show photos. But lookinbg at the html, the path to the photos
seems good. e.g. therei s a link
href="/photos/Smeatharpe%2018%20Aug.%2013.IMG_5635_large.jpg"
class="edys-gallery-item"
data-original-url="/photos/Smeatharpe%2018%20Aug.%2013.IMG_5635.jpg"
rel=""><img src="/photos/Smeatharpe%2018%20Aug.%2013.IMG_5635_medium.jpg"
border="0" class="edys-gallery-image" alt="" /></a>
Both the thumbnail and large photos are called correctly and are there.
i.e.
http://waywardwanderers.edicypages.com/photos/Smeatharpe%2018%20Aug.%2013.IMG_5635_large.jpg
http://waywardwanderers.edicypages.com/photos/Smeatharpe%2018%20Aug.%2013.IMG_5635_medium.jpg
However - they don't show in Crome either - so it may be a css problem?
--
Richard Torrens.
http://www.Torrens.org.uk for genealogy, natural history, wild food, walks, cats
and more!
http://waywardwanderers.edicypages.com/blog/dalwood-yarty-valley
fails to show photos. But lookinbg at the html, the path to the photos
seems good. e.g. therei s a link
href="/photos/Smeatharpe%2018%20Aug.%2013.IMG_5635_large.jpg"
class="edys-gallery-item"
data-original-url="/photos/Smeatharpe%2018%20Aug.%2013.IMG_5635.jpg"
rel=""><img src="/photos/Smeatharpe%2018%20Aug.%2013.IMG_5635_medium.jpg"
border="0" class="edys-gallery-image" alt="" /></a>
Both the thumbnail and large photos are called correctly and are there.
i.e.
http://waywardwanderers.edicypages.com/photos/Smeatharpe%2018%20Aug.%2013.IMG_5635_large.jpg
http://waywardwanderers.edicypages.com/photos/Smeatharpe%2018%20Aug.%2013.IMG_5635_medium.jpg
However - they don't show in Crome either - so it may be a css problem?
--
Richard Torrens.
http://www.Torrens.org.uk for genealogy, natural history, wild food, walks, cats
and more!
Tuesday, 5 April 2016
Re: Unrecognized or bad HTTP Content
On 5 Apr, Brian Howlett wrote:
[snip]
> Just for a laugh, I tried the above link in Oregano2, and it worked -
> the page redirects to http://www.perryscider.co.uk/age-check so
> visitors to the site can confirm they are over 18.
> The link to that page does work in NS 3460.
However, it then gives the same error when I tell it I'm 18 (or
over...)
Works OK in O2, so I guess it's a Javascript thing.
It makes no difference if JS is on or off in Netsurf.
--
Brian Howlett
-----------------------------------------------
If you shoot a mime, should you use a silencer?
[snip]
> Just for a laugh, I tried the above link in Oregano2, and it worked -
> the page redirects to http://www.perryscider.co.uk/age-check so
> visitors to the site can confirm they are over 18.
> The link to that page does work in NS 3460.
However, it then gives the same error when I tell it I'm 18 (or
over...)
Works OK in O2, so I guess it's a Javascript thing.
It makes no difference if JS is on or off in Netsurf.
--
Brian Howlett
-----------------------------------------------
If you shoot a mime, should you use a silencer?
Re: Unrecognized or bad HTTP Content
On 5 Apr, Richard Torrens (lists) wrote:
> www.perryscider.co.uk
> This causes NS 3460 to report
> Unrecognized or bad HTTP Content or Transfer-Encoding
> Site works on Chrome, Browse. Causes Otter to crash.
> Can't connect with Telnet....
Just for a laugh, I tried the above link in Oregano2, and it worked -
the page redirects to http://www.perryscider.co.uk/age-check so
visitors to the site can confirm they are over 18.
The link to that page does work in NS 3460.
--
Brian Howlett
----------------------------------------------
All electronic components run on smoke.
If you let the smoke out, they stop working...
> www.perryscider.co.uk
> This causes NS 3460 to report
> Unrecognized or bad HTTP Content or Transfer-Encoding
> Site works on Chrome, Browse. Causes Otter to crash.
> Can't connect with Telnet....
Just for a laugh, I tried the above link in Oregano2, and it worked -
the page redirects to http://www.perryscider.co.uk/age-check so
visitors to the site can confirm they are over 18.
The link to that page does work in NS 3460.
--
Brian Howlett
----------------------------------------------
All electronic components run on smoke.
If you let the smoke out, they stop working...
Unrecognized or bad HTTP Content
www.perryscider.co.uk
This causes NS 3460 to report
Unrecognized or bad HTTP Content or Transfer-Encoding
Site works on Chrome, Browse. Causes Otter to crash.
Can't connect with Telnet....
--
Richard Torrens.
http://www.Torrens.org.uk for genealogy, natural history, wild food, walks, cats
and more!
This causes NS 3460 to report
Unrecognized or bad HTTP Content or Transfer-Encoding
Site works on Chrome, Browse. Causes Otter to crash.
Can't connect with Telnet....
--
Richard Torrens.
http://www.Torrens.org.uk for genealogy, natural history, wild food, walks, cats
and more!
Subscribe to:
Posts (Atom)