[netsurf-users] NetSurf Dynamic Area cleanup/scavenging

I have noticed for sometime now that NetSurf is not very good at clearing
up it's Dynamic Memory area. For example if I view a few web sites, I
find I have multiple Dynamic Areas for NetSurf, some quite large, but only
every disappear when I quite NetSurf.

I'm guessing this a general feature of NetSurf ;)

--
Paul Stewart Sent from A9home running RISC OS 4.42

[netsurf-users] Re: RISC OS web search configuration

In message <ba3c12015c.admin@bazleyfamily.co.uk>
Harriet Bazley <lists@bazleyfamily.co.uk> wrote:

> From a user interface point of view it would be preferable to have an
> indication on said Welcome page of which search engine will actually be
> used, and a way to switch, say, temporarily to Ebay without
> reconfiguring via Choices - but I can see that it is complicated by the
> fact that this is a web page and not a normal RISC OS window with
> drop-down menus etc....

For those of use that do not use the Welcome page, I would say better to
have indication in the URL bar. Perhaps a logo or text to appear on the
right handside? Then perhaps if you menu click over the logo/text it will
pop-up with list of available choices to temporarily choose from.

--
Paul Stewart Sent from A9home running RISC OS 4.42

[netsurf-users] Re: RISC OS web search configuration

In message <0abb1966-9d44-401b-8f51-057185fae7fc@kyllikki.org>
vincent sanders <vince@kyllikki.org> wrote:

> Back in February I updated the integrated web search functionality.

> At the time I mentioned I would attempt to allow the configuration of
> the active web search on RISC OS through the GUI instead of having to
> edit the Choices file manually.

> This has been committed and available in CI build #6804

> I would be grateful if interested users could try the new configuration
> and mention any issues.

Thanks for this. Found the list in NetSurf Configuration GUI.


--
Paul Stewart Sent from A9home running RISC OS 4.42

[netsurf-users] Re: What?

In article <5c012366a1dave@triffid.co.uk>,
Dave <dave@triffid.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <3FA46049-8D61-4BA8-9973-D4D81B998B5C@ypical.co.uk>,
> Frederick Bambrough <mlist@ypical.co.uk> wrote:
> > On 3 March 2025 07:45:40 UTC, Dave <dave@triffid.co.uk> wrote:
> > >Grump, grump! For a while now, NetSurf, #6786 and at present #6790
> > >will not connect with anything online, not even my own website. (And
> > >others).
> > >
> > >Reporting: "An error occurred when connecting to
> > >http://www.triffid.co.uk Could not resolve hostname."
> > >
> > >So what's going on?
> > >
> > >If I engage Uniserver, the URL is successfully thrown Windows side
> > >okay.
> > >
> > >If I go back a few versions to say, #6764 NS works okay.
> > >
> > >Thanks Dave
> > >

> > I've been getting something similar for a while except only with the
> > ROOL website. It works for a short while then gives the error you're
> > seeing. Even after the error it will access other sites though.

> Just read Vincent's posting about NetSurf #6804 and thought, in relation
> to my problem I'd give that a try.

> Naaa! As noted previously, NOT ONE of the recent versions of NetSurf,
> thought they will load to the icon bar and run okay, will connect with
> ANY address I try.

> I'm now back to #6764 and NS connects okay.

> What is causing this problem?

> VRPC-DL RISC OS 6.20

> Dave

I've now tried the recent NetSurf versions on a Number of different RISC
OS version installs, and they just will not do the business.

Revert to an older NS and it works okay.

I have absolutely no idea what's causing this?

Dave

--

Dave Triffid

[netsurf-users] Re: NetSurf no html filetype icon

In message <b6c839015c.harriet@bazleyfamily.co.uk>
Harriet Bazley <lists@bazleyfamily.co.uk> wrote:


>> Since updating #6799 I notice that my html files are showing in the filer
>> window with the unknown filetype icon ie a question mark. The files have a
>> file type of xFAF and launch NetSurf when double-clicked.
>>
>> Anyone else seen this?
>>
> !NetSurf.!Boot should contain the line
> Set File$Type_FAF HTML
> (although I would expect this to get set elsewhere in a modern Boot
> sequence), so if your files of type &FAF are not showing in the Filer as
> having type "HTML" that would suggest that this line has not been
> executed.

Filetype is being set
*show file$type_faf
File$Type_FAF : HTML
but the icon is not being picked up by HTML files


--
John Rickman

[netsurf-users] Re: NetSurf no html filetype icon

On 21 Mar 2025 as I do recall,
John Rickman wrote:

> Since updating #6799 I notice that my html files are showing in the filer
> window with the unknown filetype icon ie a question mark. The files have a
> file type of xFAF and launch NetSurf when double-clicked.
>
> Anyone else seen this?
>
!NetSurf.!Boot should contain the line
Set File$Type_FAF HTML
(although I would expect this to get set elsewhere in a modern Boot
sequence), so if your files of type &FAF are not showing in the Filer as
having type "HTML" that would suggest that this line has not been
executed.

I note that the ASprites/ASprites11 files don't seem to contain anything
other than the basic NetSurf icon sprite, whereas the 5Sprites file also
has various filetype icons - but not a file_faf icon, so I can't see how
that would be significant....

--
Harriet Bazley == Loyaulte me lie ==

It is far better to be deceived than to be undeceived by those we love.

[netsurf-users] NetSurf no html filetype icon

Since updating #6799 I notice that my html files are showing in the filer
window with the unknown filetype icon ie a question mark. The files have a
file type of xFAF and launch NetSurf when double-clicked.

Anyone else seen this?

John

--
John Rickman

[netsurf-users] Re: What?

In article <3FA46049-8D61-4BA8-9973-D4D81B998B5C@ypical.co.uk>,
Frederick Bambrough <mlist@ypical.co.uk> wrote:
> On 3 March 2025 07:45:40 UTC, Dave <dave@triffid.co.uk> wrote:
> >Grump, grump! For a while now, NetSurf, #6786 and at present #6790 will
> >not connect with anything online, not even my own website. (And others).
> >
> >Reporting: "An error occurred when connecting to
> >http://www.triffid.co.uk Could not resolve hostname."
> >
> >So what's going on?
> >
> >If I engage Uniserver, the URL is successfully thrown Windows side okay.
> >
> >If I go back a few versions to say, #6764 NS works okay.
> >
> >Thanks
> >Dave
> >

> I've been getting something similar for a while except only with the
> ROOL website. It works for a short while then gives the error you're
> seeing. Even after the error it will access other sites though.

Just read Vincent's posting about NetSurf #6804 and thought, in relation
to my problem I'd give that a try.

Naaa!
As noted previously, NOT ONE of the recent versions of NetSurf, thought
they will load to the icon bar and run okay, will connect with ANY address
I try.

I'm now back to #6764 and NS connects okay.

What is causing this problem?

VRPC-DL RISC OS 6.20

Dave

--

Dave Triffid

[netsurf-users] Re: RISC OS web search configuration

On 20 Mar 2025 as I do recall,
vincent sanders wrote:

> Back in February I updated the integrated web search functionality.
>
> At the time I mentioned I would attempt to allow the configuration of
> the active web search on RISC OS through the GUI instead of having to
> edit the Choices file manually.
>
> This has been committed and available in CI build #6804
>
> I would be grateful if interested users could try the new configuration
> and mention any issues.
>
I tried deleting my manually-configured home page value of google.co.uk,
and Netsurf duly started up by showing its Welcome page with "Web
Search" pointing to DuckDuckGo.

Tried switching 'Search' from the Choices window to 'IMDB',
experimentally, and nothing happened when I pressed Return in the
Welcome page search icon. Or, for that matter, when I clicked on the
Search button.

Tried 'Bing' and that worked. Tried 'Ebay' and that worked [edit:
although it defaults to ebay.com rather than ebay.co.uk - not sure how
many American users we have, but this means that all the prices are
displayed in dollars and most of the items advertised pay international
postage!]

I haven't tested any others.

From a user interface point of view it would be preferable to have an
indication on said Welcome page of which search engine will actually be
used, and a way to switch, say, temporarily to Ebay without
reconfiguring via Choices - but I can see that it is complicated by the
fact that this is a web page and not a normal RISC OS window with
drop-down menus etc....


--
Harriet Bazley == Loyaulte me lie ==

We have met the enemy, and he is us.

[netsurf-users] RISC OS web search configuration

Back in February I updated the integrated web search functionality.

At the time I mentioned I would attempt to allow the configuration of
the active web search on RISC OS through the GUI instead of having to
edit the Choices file manually.

This has been committed and available in CI build #6804

I would be grateful if interested users could try the new configuration
and mention any issues.

[netsurf-users] Re: Missing links

On 4 Mar 2025 as I do recall,
Steve Fryatt wrote:

[snip]


> The site simply uses conditional CSS to adjust the layout of the page as the
> width gets smaller, which is what the media queries are for. For example my
> own sites push sidebars to the bottom of the page, remove white space,
> re-jig the navigation menus, and so on. NetSurf's windows are small enough
> by default that a "mobile" page layout will often result as standard when
> pages open, but that's things working as intended.
>
> What doesn't work as expected is that the page would reflow as the size
> changes on many other browsers, whereas NetSurf doesn't do that.
>
Well, it does reflow the text to fit the width of the window (where
sites allow it); it just doesn't re-load all the CSS styles in case
resizing the window might have altered a style definition....
The latter probably not even being an assumption worth wasting
processing power on when Netsurf was being designed, but now apparently
a frequently-deployed possibility!

--
Harriet Bazley == Loyaulte me lie ==

You cannot propel yourself forward by patting yourself on the back.

[netsurf-users] Re: Missing links

On 2 Mar, Harriet Bazley wrote in message
<09b184f75b.harriet@bazleyfamily.co.uk>:

> (I wonder how many more of the 'non-accessible' pages on the Web have been
> designed on the assumption that you will only ever be loading the page
> into a maximised browser window that occupies the entire screen?)

That's not really what is happening, though... There's certainly no
assumption going on.

The site simply uses conditional CSS to adjust the layout of the page as the
width gets smaller, which is what the media queries are for. For example my
own sites push sidebars to the bottom of the page, remove white space,
re-jig the navigation menus, and so on. NetSurf's windows are small enough
by default that a "mobile" page layout will often result as standard when
pages open, but that's things working as intended.

What doesn't work as expected is that the page would reflow as the size
changes on many other browsers, whereas NetSurf doesn't do that.

And many sites rely on Javascript to open and close the mobile navigation
menu, so as to save on space. To be honest, I have no problem with that.

--
Steve Fryatt - Leeds, England

http://www.stevefryatt.org.uk/

[netsurf-users] Re: What?

In article <3FA46049-8D61-4BA8-9973-D4D81B998B5C@ypical.co.uk>,
Frederick Bambrough <mlist@ypical.co.uk> wrote:
> On 3 March 2025 07:45:40 UTC, Dave <dave@triffid.co.uk> wrote:
> >Grump, grump! For a while now, NetSurf, #6786 and at present #6790 will
> >not connect with anything online, not even my own website. (And others).
> >
> >Reporting:
> >"An error occurred when connecting to http://www.triffid.co.uk
> >Could not resolve hostname."
> >
> >So what's going on?
> >
> >If I engage Uniserver, the URL is successfully thrown Windows side okay.
> >
> >If I go back a few versions to say, #6764 NS works okay.
> >
> >Thanks
> >Dave
> >

> I've been getting something similar for a while except only with the
> ROOL website. It works for a short while then gives the error you're
> seeing. Even after the error it will access other sites though.

Interesting...
I've tried many, many URLs, and here NS very recent versions will not
connect with anything, and I do mean anything.

As I noted going back a few versions (6764) and it works okay with every
URL that won't work on the later versions.

Even Google search.

Dave


VRPC-DL RISC OS 6.20

--

Dave Triffid

[netsurf-users] Re: What?

On 3 March 2025 07:45:40 UTC, Dave <dave@triffid.co.uk> wrote:
>Grump, grump!
>For a while now, NetSurf, #6786 and at present #6790 will not connect with
>anything online, not even my own website. (And others).
>
>Reporting:
>"An error occurred when connecting to http://www.triffid.co.uk
>Could not resolve hostname."
>
>So what's going on?
>
>If I engage Uniserver, the URL is successfully thrown Windows side okay.
>
>If I go back a few versions to say, #6764 NS works okay.
>
>Thanks
>Dave
>

I've been getting something similar for a while except only with the ROOL website. It works for a short while then gives the error you're seeing. Even after the error it will access other sites though.

--
Frederick

[netsurf-users] What?

Grump, grump!
For a while now, NetSurf, #6786 and at present #6790 will not connect with
anything online, not even my own website. (And others).

Reporting:
"An error occurred when connecting to http://www.triffid.co.uk
Could not resolve hostname."

So what's going on?

If I engage Uniserver, the URL is successfully thrown Windows side okay.

If I go back a few versions to say, #6764 NS works okay.

Thanks
Dave

--

Dave Triffid

[netsurf-users] Re: Missing links

On 2 Mar 2025 as I do recall,
Steve Fryatt wrote:

> On 25 Feb, Harriet Bazley wrote in message
> <402a71f45b.harriet@bazleyfamily.co.uk>:
>
> > None of the various links on this Civil War website are visible unless you
> > disable CSS support - it's just a headline and a front page photo.
> > https://norfolketraynedbandes.uk/
> >
> > I'm guessing that the site is identifying Netsurf as some kind of 'mobile
> > device' and offering a pop-up menu to save space, which the browser
> > doesn't support?
>
> Partly. It's identifying that the screen area is too small for the menu bar,
> and so falling back to the reduced-space option. I'd guess that uses
> Javascript, but haven't looked.
>
> Make the NetSurf window bigger and then refresh the page. NetSurf doesn't
> recalculate CSS media queries on the fly, but if the window is big enough
> when the page is reloaded you'll get the menu bar appear.
>

A-ha! That works....

(I wonder how many more of the 'non-accessible' pages on the Web have
been designed on the assumption that you will only ever be loading the
page into a maximised browser window that occupies the entire screen?)


--
Harriet Bazley == Loyaulte me lie ==

The only rose without thorns is friendship.

[netsurf-users] Re: broken fonts in Netsurf on Atari Falcon in FreeMint

Hi Ole,

thanks a lot. So I tried the „internal" font renderer. It kind of makes the font somewhat readable in Netsurf 3.11 (build 6790), but does a lot of other strange stuff and errors in window rendering. And in Netsurf 2.9, the „internal" font renderer crashes it right away (memory corruption).

I took the Choices file that I created in Netsurf 2.9 - it works fine with it, including fonts etc. The palette issue is slightly annoying in 2.9, but I could perfectly live with it. It just changes the color of XaAES background when Netsurf gets focus (from white to red), but the fonts and images are rendered OK in 2.9.

This is how the Choices file looks like: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/lyu318dgt5bzhjupe183v/CHOICES.txt?rlkey=21nopn9jzbp5thr9i0iiyw0op&dl=0 

So when I take this Choices file (that works with 2.9), it does not work with Netsurf 3.11 - causing the font issue, and even images are not rendered ok in 3.11 (even though they look fine in 2.9).

Is it possible that there is some big difference between 2.9 and 3.11 maybe in the renderer that breaks it in 3.11 on systems that are not true color? (like legacy Falcon 030)

That would probably mean that Netsurf is not usable in my case unless I somehow upgrade video HW in my Falcon.

But still it's pity because Netsurf 2.9 looks pretty cool, and the only issue there is too old and deprecated TLS (refused on all https webs).

So I'm wondering if there is anybody in this forum who succeeded in running Netsurf 3.11 on the Falcon HW.

Thanks and all the best

Jan

2. 3. 2025 v 0:33, Ole Loots <ole@monochrom.net>:

Hello Jan,

please lookup the atari related options in the Choices file/dialog. That bug is bit depth related. There are 2 font renderers. Both handle palette based modes? Freetype in monochrom *rendering* mode requires special handling - not implemented. Defaults to grayscale.

Use true color hardware, when available.

Internal renderer is buggy, does it provoke memory corruption? I think so.

Not sure about images - i think you have to completly disable image rendering when running under palette based modes.


Greets,
Ole

Am 1. März 2025 20:59:48 MEZ schrieb "jan.romportl@pm.me" <dmarc-noreply@freelists.org>:

Hi, I'd like to ask for some tips/troubleshooting on running Netsurf on Atari Falcon with FreeMint.

When I run the (almost) latest build NetSurf-m68k-atari-mint-gcc-6790 (or actually any randomly selected build between 4757-6790, as found here https://ci.netsurf-browser.org/builds/atari/), I get a totally broken unreadable font, and maybe some issues with how the window is rendered.

Best visible on the screenshot here: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/1ffqe7jh5m0qaf36kej29/netsurf_screenshot_atari_falcon.png?rlkey=t3y5ujodidyuhw7czzihdvh6j&dl=0 

(I'm not sure if I can attach images on this forum so I rather put it as a shared link on my dropbox)

When I run it from bash in verbose mode with -v, I don't see any apparent problems in the log - it's mostly INFO.

The log is here: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/lot9ibi362tulvhftcwq0/LOG.TXT?rlkey=81p419t621182sen7mbuhvfd5&dl=0 

I run it on Atari Falcon 030 with DFB1X accelerator by Exxos (50 MHz, 128MB alt-RAM). FreeMint build 1-19-731, XaAES 1.6.4 Beta (Jun 2024), and typical EasyMint packages.

If I try to run older Netsurf 2.9 downloaded here https://www.netsurf-browser.org/downloads/atari/, this one works fine, but apparently has only the old deprecated TLS (that's why I want to run a newer build).

I'll be happy for any tips here.

Thanks a lot

Jan

--

Jan Romportl

https://www.romportl.com/

[netsurf-users] Re: Missing links

On 25 Feb, Harriet Bazley wrote in message
<402a71f45b.harriet@bazleyfamily.co.uk>:

> None of the various links on this Civil War website are visible unless you
> disable CSS support - it's just a headline and a front page photo.
> https://norfolketraynedbandes.uk/
>
> I'm guessing that the site is identifying Netsurf as some kind of 'mobile
> device' and offering a pop-up menu to save space, which the browser
> doesn't support?

Partly. It's identifying that the screen area is too small for the menu bar,
and so falling back to the reduced-space option. I'd guess that uses
Javascript, but haven't looked.

Make the NetSurf window bigger and then refresh the page. NetSurf doesn't
recalculate CSS media queries on the fly, but if the window is big enough
when the page is reloaded you'll get the menu bar appear.

--
Steve Fryatt - Leeds, England

http://www.stevefryatt.org.uk/

[netsurf-users] Re: [netsurf-users] broken fonts in Netsurf on Atari Falcon in FreeMint

Hello Jan,

please lookup the atari related options in the Choices file/dialog. That bug is bit depth related. There are 2 font renderers. Both handle palette based modes? Freetype in monochrom *rendering* mode requires special handling - not implemented. Defaults to grayscale.

Use true color hardware, when available.

Internal renderer is buggy, does it provoke memory corruption? I think so.

Not sure about images - i think you have to completly disable image rendering when running under palette based modes.


Greets,
Ole

Am 1. März 2025 20:59:48 MEZ schrieb "jan.romportl@pm.me" <dmarc-noreply@freelists.org>:

Hi, I'd like to ask for some tips/troubleshooting on running Netsurf on Atari Falcon with FreeMint.

When I run the (almost) latest build NetSurf-m68k-atari-mint-gcc-6790 (or actually any randomly selected build between 4757-6790, as found here https://ci.netsurf-browser.org/builds/atari/), I get a totally broken unreadable font, and maybe some issues with how the window is rendered.

Best visible on the screenshot here: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/1ffqe7jh5m0qaf36kej29/netsurf_screenshot_atari_falcon.png?rlkey=t3y5ujodidyuhw7czzihdvh6j&dl=0 

(I'm not sure if I can attach images on this forum so I rather put it as a shared link on my dropbox)

When I run it from bash in verbose mode with -v, I don't see any apparent problems in the log - it's mostly INFO.

The log is here: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/lot9ibi362tulvhftcwq0/LOG.TXT?rlkey=81p419t621182sen7mbuhvfd5&dl=0 

I run it on Atari Falcon 030 with DFB1X accelerator by Exxos (50 MHz, 128MB alt-RAM). FreeMint build 1-19-731, XaAES 1.6.4 Beta (Jun 2024), and typical EasyMint packages.

If I try to run older Netsurf 2.9 downloaded here https://www.netsurf-browser.org/downloads/atari/, this one works fine, but apparently has only the old deprecated TLS (that's why I want to run a newer build).

I'll be happy for any tips here.

Thanks a lot

Jan

--

Jan Romportl

https://www.romportl.com/

[netsurf-users] broken fonts in Netsurf on Atari Falcon in FreeMint

Hi, I'd like to ask for some tips/troubleshooting on running Netsurf on Atari Falcon with FreeMint.

When I run the (almost) latest build NetSurf-m68k-atari-mint-gcc-6790 (or actually any randomly selected build between 4757-6790, as found here https://ci.netsurf-browser.org/builds/atari/), I get a totally broken unreadable font, and maybe some issues with how the window is rendered.

Best visible on the screenshot here: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/1ffqe7jh5m0qaf36kej29/netsurf_screenshot_atari_falcon.png?rlkey=t3y5ujodidyuhw7czzihdvh6j&dl=0 

(I'm not sure if I can attach images on this forum so I rather put it as a shared link on my dropbox)

When I run it from bash in verbose mode with -v, I don't see any apparent problems in the log - it's mostly INFO.

The log is here: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/lot9ibi362tulvhftcwq0/LOG.TXT?rlkey=81p419t621182sen7mbuhvfd5&dl=0 

I run it on Atari Falcon 030 with DFB1X accelerator by Exxos (50 MHz, 128MB alt-RAM). FreeMint build 1-19-731, XaAES 1.6.4 Beta (Jun 2024), and typical EasyMint packages.

If I try to run older Netsurf 2.9 downloaded here https://www.netsurf-browser.org/downloads/atari/, this one works fine, but apparently has only the old deprecated TLS (that's why I want to run a newer build).

I'll be happy for any tips here.

Thanks a lot

Jan

--

Jan Romportl

https://www.romportl.com/

[netsurf-users] Re: Web search changes

On 27 Feb 2025 as I do recall,
Paul Stewart wrote:

[snip]


> Just checked and google.co.uk also works with Javascript enabled. This
> didn't work when I check a couple of weeks back.
>
> Tested with 6789.
>
As I said last time, this clearly varies from individual user/ISP
connection to user: it worked for me too for a while before displaying
an explicit notice that I had been blocked, and currently returns a
complete blank page (with JavaScript enabled) or a "our systems have
detected unusual activity" (with JS disabled). Tested with 6790.


--
Harriet Bazley == Loyaulte me lie ==

Presence of mind is good, but absence of body is better.

[netsurf-users] Re: Web search changes

In message <5bf4415613john@jaharrison.me.uk>
John Harrison <john@jaharrison.me.uk> wrote:

> In article <5bf41da559Stuartlists@orpheusinternet.co.uk>,
> lists <Stuartlists@orpheusinternet.co.uk> wrote:
>> I have always preferred to use Duckduckgo as my search engine

> As a brand in preference to Google yes. But it doesn't offer the ability
> to display images (rather than text entries) which I often find useful.

Google search is working fine for me!
Using Google.com and need to have Javascript enabled.
Just takes a little longer for google.com to load with the extra
Javascript processing.
Just checked and google.co.uk also works with Javascript enabled. This
didn't work when I check a couple of weeks back.

Tested with 6789.


--
Paul Stewart Sent from A9home running RISC OS 4.42

[netsurf-users] Missing links

None of the various links on this Civil War website are visible unless
you disable CSS support - it's just a headline and a front page photo.
https://norfolketraynedbandes.uk/

I'm guessing that the site is identifying Netsurf as some kind of
'mobile device' and offering a pop-up menu to save space, which the
browser doesn't support?

--
Harriet Bazley == Loyaulte me lie ==

Reality is for people who can't face science fiction.

[netsurf-users] Re: Web search changes

In article <5bf41da559Stuartlists@orpheusinternet.co.uk>,
lists <Stuartlists@orpheusinternet.co.uk> wrote:
> I have always preferred to use Duckduckgo as my search engine

As a brand in preference to Google yes. But it doesn't offer the ability
to display images (rather than text entries) which I often find useful.

--
John Harrison
Website http://jaharrison.me.uk
Using 4té2 and ARMX6, both running RISC OS

We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children (Emmerson?)

[netsurf-users] Re: Web search changes

In article <21e417f45b.pittdj+@iyonix.home>,
David Pitt <pittdj@pittdj.plus.com> wrote:
> In message <f92ae088-4f98-46f6-af78-823ae60b9781@netsurf-browser.org>
> vincent sanders <vince@netsurf-browser.org> wrote:

> > I have recently changed how web searches are initiated in the core of
> > NetSurf (CI builds 6789 and later)

> [snip]

> > There is also the option "search_url_bar" which when set to 1 allows
> > searches to be performed through the url bar.
Two or more words are just fine. A "+" before a
> single word also ducks the issue.

> This is on the RISC OS Netsurf.

Pun alert "Ducks" ??

--
Chris Newman

[netsurf-users] Re: Web search changes

In article <f92ae088-4f98-46f6-af78-823ae60b9781@netsurf-browser.org>,
vincent sanders <vince@netsurf-browser.org> wrote:
> I have therefore selected (with consultation of the other developers)
> DuckDuckGo as an alternative *default* provider as they still permit
> search without Javascript

Personaly, I have always preferred to use Duckduckgo as my search engine.

--
Stuart Winsor

Tools With A Mission
sending tools across the world
http://www.twam.co.uk/

[netsurf-users] Re: Web search changes

In message <f92ae088-4f98-46f6-af78-823ae60b9781@netsurf-browser.org>
vincent sanders <vince@netsurf-browser.org> wrote:

> I have recently changed how web searches are initiated in the core of
> NetSurf (CI builds 6789 and later)

[snip]

> There is also the option "search_url_bar" which when set to 1 allows
> searches to be performed through the url bar.

Thanks for the update to a more amenable search engine.

I note that "search_url_bar" is set to 1 by default and so works out
of the box.

Initially the feature appeared not to be working but that turned out
to be that a single word search is interpreted as a URL which Netsurf
attempts to fetch. Two or more words are just fine. A "+" before a
single word also ducks the issue.

This is on the RISC OS Netsurf.

HTH.
--
David Pitt

[netsurf-users] Web search changes

I have recently changed how web searches are initiated in the core of
NetSurf (CI builds 6789 and later)

This was initiated by Google changing to mandating extensive "anti bot"
javascript which NetSurf currently cannot process.

There does not appear to be any exception to this and Google have simply
ignored my attempt to contact them.

I have therefore selected (with consultation of the other developers)
DuckDuckGo as an alternative *default* provider as they still permit
search without Javascript

Somewhat annoyingly the Duck Duck Go favicon is served as a window
bitmap file with PNG encoding (which is not currently supported in
libbmp) so for the present time users will only see the default icon here.

The core browser web search has been present for some time but only a
handful of frontends allowed it to be configured. Indeed most frontends
do not even initialize the search providers (I added it to RISC OS in CI
build 6790)

The "search_web_provider entry" in the Choices file controls which
provider is used (e.g. "search_web_provider:Yahoo" means yahoo will be
used or "search_web_provider:DuckDuckGo" which is the new default)

There is also the option "search_url_bar" which when set to 1 allows
searches to be performed through the url bar.

The default welcome page has been amended to use the configured provider
rather than forcing users to edit the html source.

I am investigating adding the ability to configure the web search
provider in more frontends (at least  RISC OS) as manually configuring
the Choices is not user friendly.

The current list of search providers is held in the file
https://git.netsurf-browser.org/netsurf.git/tree/resources/SearchEngines
and if more providers should be added I am open to suggestions.

[netsurf-users] DuckDuckGo as default search engine

Now that "google no longer operates at all without extensive
javascript support" Netsurf 6789 attempts to change the default search
engine to DuckDuckGo, as embedded in the welcome page.

https://ci.netsurf-browser.org/jenkins/job/netsurf/6789/changes

It doesn't quite work here. A search errors with, "Error occurred
fetching page", and this in the URL bar :-

about:websearch?q=elephant

Specifying https://html.duckduckgo.com/html explicitly in
welcome.html, rather than about:websearch does allow the search to
work.

--
David Pitt

[netsurf-dev] import node and owner

Hello,

I'm trying to implement replaceWith.
Code like this:

dom_node *el; // current node to be replaced
dom_node *new_child; // from other document
dom_node *imported_node;

dom_document *doc;

exc = dom_node_get_owner_document(el, &doc);
if (exc != DOM_NO_ERR) {
fprintf(stderr, "!doc\n");
fprintf(stderr, "exc=%d\n", exc);
return;
}

exc = dom_node_import_node(doc, new_child, true, &imported_node);
if (exc != DOM_NO_ERR) {
fprintf(stderr, "!imported\n");
fprintf(stderr, "exc=%d\n", exc);
return;
}

dom_node *parent = NULL;
exc = dom_node_get_parent_node(el, &parent);

if (exc != DOM_NO_ERR) {
fprintf(stderr, "!parent\n");
fprintf(stderr, "exc=%d\n", exc);
return;
}
dom_node *res = NULL;
exc = dom_node_replace_child(parent, imported_node, el, &res);

if (exc != DOM_NO_ERR) {
fprintf(stderr, "!replace\n");
fprintf(stderr, "exc=%d\n", exc);
return;
}

I tried various combinations, but the last exc is 4.

In code of libdom there is the dom_node_set_owner macro, but it is never called.
Is there a trick to make it work?
Or could you confirm that, there is a bug in the libdom library?
How to fix it?

Regards,
Witold Filipczyk

[netsurf-users] Re: Google search

On 9 Feb 2025 as I do recall,
Paul Stewart wrote:

> Not sure if it is JS related or CSS, but be good for the menu bar along
> the top of google.com/uk page to display. You can see it is there by
> hovering the mouse pointer over it, but if you were not aware of it you
> would be none the wiser.
>

It's CSS-related (or at least it becomes visible when CSS is disabled).


--
Harriet Bazley == Loyaulte me lie ==

Those who neglect the past do not deserve the future.

[netsurf-users] Re: Google search

In message <df0c89ec5b.harriet@bazleyfamily.co.uk>
Harriet Bazley <lists@bazleyfamily.co.uk> wrote:

> I get the impression that all these work until they 'notice you' (i.e.
> run a randomized check on your particular query), after which your
> browser agent/IP address go onto a block list. But that's probably
> paranoid. :-(

> Anyway, trying a new combination works for a while but then always ends
> up blocked... and it doesn't appear to be anything to do with the actual
> abilities of the browser, with the possible exception of the 'blank
> page' result, which I assume to be the site using JavaScript to throw up
> some kind of interactive 'are you a bot' test.

It will be good when NetSurf gets a more functional version of Javascript.

Not sure if it is JS related or CSS, but be good for the menu bar along
the top of google.com/uk page to display. You can see it is there by
hovering the mouse pointer over it, but if you were not aware of it you
would be none the wiser.

--
Paul Stewart Sent from A9home running RISC OS 4.42

[netsurf-users] Re: Google search

On 9 Feb 2025 as I do recall,
Paul Stewart wrote:

> In message <5bec81139cjohn@jaharrison.me.uk>
> John Harrison <john@jaharrison.me.uk> wrote:
>
> > In article <911372ec5b.phorefaux@a9home.lan>,
> > Paul Stewart <dmarc-noreply@freelists.org> wrote:
> >>> The URL of the search that worked was:
>
> >>> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en-GB&source=hp&biw=&bih=&q=fred&btnG=Goog
> >>> le+Search&iflsig=ACkRmUkAAAAAZ5-R19mlrKh1xYmpEN0bFHEzGVRCegvD&gbv=1
>
> >> When I try that URL I get the "Enable JavaScript to use search" page
> >> from Google.
>
> > What happens if you enable JS?
>
> It does indeed work. However searching from google.co.uk does not. Just
> generates a blank page.

Yes, that's what I'm getting at the moment.

>
> However, rather interestingly, searching from google.com does work with JS
> enabled.
>
I get the impression that all these work until they 'notice you' (i.e.
run a randomized check on your particular query), after which your
browser agent/IP address go onto a block list. But that's probably
paranoid. :-(

Anyway, trying a new combination works for a while but then always ends
up blocked... and it doesn't appear to be anything to do with the actual
abilities of the browser, with the possible exception of the 'blank
page' result, which I assume to be the site using JavaScript to throw up
some kind of interactive 'are you a bot' test.

--
Harriet Bazley == Loyaulte me lie ==

St George for England - St Pancras for Scotland

[netsurf-users] Re: Google search

In message <a84fade15b.harriet@bazleyfamily.co.uk>
Harriet Bazley <lists@bazleyfamily.co.uk> wrote:

> Google.co.uk appears to have permanently disabled search results without
> JavaScript, after intermittent blocks:
> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42719865

> They don't currently appear to be doing anything than testing whether JS
> is enabled in the browser, rather than actually using it to manipulate
> the results display, because simply switching JS on in Netsurf produces
> the same listings as before (whereas it has no effect on most 'requires
> JavaScript' sites beyond slowing down the rendering of the page).

> DuckDuckGo displays a completely blank page with nothing in it but a
> text icon, which appears to work for searching with JS both on and off,
> but is not reassuring....

Searchy by Andrew Poole appears to work okay with Google still. Just have
to make sure you have JS switched on in NS.


--
Paul Stewart Sent from A9home running RISC OS 4.42

[netsurf-users] Re: Google search

In message <5bec81139cjohn@jaharrison.me.uk>
John Harrison <john@jaharrison.me.uk> wrote:

> In article <911372ec5b.phorefaux@a9home.lan>,
> Paul Stewart <dmarc-noreply@freelists.org> wrote:
>>> The URL of the search that worked was:

>>> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en-GB&source=hp&biw=&bih=&q=fred&btnG=Goog
>>> le+Search&iflsig=ACkRmUkAAAAAZ5-R19mlrKh1xYmpEN0bFHEzGVRCegvD&gbv=1

>> When I try that URL I get the "Enable JavaScript to use search" page
>> from Google.

> What happens if you enable JS?

It does indeed work. However searching from google.co.uk does not. Just
generates a blank page.

However, rather interestingly, searching from google.com does work with JS
enabled.

--
Paul Stewart Sent from A9home running RISC OS 4.42

[netsurf-users] Re: Google search

In article <911372ec5b.phorefaux@a9home.lan>,
Paul Stewart <dmarc-noreply@freelists.org> wrote:
> > The URL of the search that worked was:

> > http://www.google.com/search?hl=en-GB&source=hp&biw=&bih=&q=fred&btnG=Goog
> > le+Search&iflsig=ACkRmUkAAAAAZ5-R19mlrKh1xYmpEN0bFHEzGVRCegvD&gbv=1

> When I try that URL I get the "Enable JavaScript to use search" page
> from Google.

What happens if you enable JS?

--
John Harrison
Website http://jaharrison.me.uk
Using 4té2 and ARMX6, both running RISC OS

The Europeans invest to provide value. The Anglo Saxons only invest to reduce costs. (Sir Alister Morton, Chairman of EuroTunnel)

[netsurf-users] Re: Google search

In message <5be8e99ef3john@jaharrison.me.uk>
John Harrison <john@jaharrison.me.uk> wrote:

> The URL of the search that worked was:

> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en-GB&source=hp&biw=&bih=&q=fred&btnG=Goog
> le+Search&iflsig=ACkRmUkAAAAAZ5-R19mlrKh1xYmpEN0bFHEzGVRCegvD&gbv=1

When I try that URL I get the "Enable JavaScript to use search" page from
Google. Using NetSurf build 6786

--
Paul Stewart Sent from A9home running RISC OS 4.42

[netsurf-users] Re: Google search

In message <2c3f1be95b.harriet@bazleyfamily.co.uk>
Harriet Bazley <lists@bazleyfamily.co.uk> wrote:
> On 2 Feb 2025 as I do recall,
> John Harrison wrote:
>> The URL of the search that worked was:
>>
>> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en-GB&source=hp&biw=&bih=&q=fred&btnG=Goog
>> le+Search&iflsig=ACkRmUkAAAAAZ5-R19mlrKh1xYmpEN0bFHEzGVRCegvD&gbv=1


> NB neither search works here, even with JavaScript enabled - they just
> display a complete blank window followed by the "Our systems have
> detected unusual traffic from your computer network. This page checks to
> see if it's really you sending the requests, and not a robot" message.

The URL above works on all three machines:- ARMX6, Qube, and two Pi
machines, 4te and Qube.

I don't know what to make of it, but notice that the above URL is http,
not https.




--
John Rickman

[netsurf-users] Re: Google search

On 2 Feb 2025 as I do recall,
John Harrison wrote:

> The URL of the search that worked was:
>
> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en-GB&source=hp&biw=&bih=&q=fred&btnG=Google+Search&iflsig=ACkRmUkAAAAAZ5-R19mlrKh1xYmpEN0bFHEzGVRCegvD&gbv=1
>
> and of the one that didn't was:
>
> https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=fred&btnG=Google+Search
>

NB neither search works here, even with JavaScript enabled - they just
display a complete blank window followed by the "Our systems have
detected unusual traffic from your computer network. This page checks to
see if it's really you sending the requests, and not a robot" message.

--
Harriet Bazley == Loyaulte me lie ==

Old Programmers never die. They just terminate and stay resident

[netsurf-users] Re: Google search

On 2 Feb 2025 as I do recall,
John Harrison wrote:

> In article <3f66d9e85b.John@rickman.argonet.co.uk>,
> John Rickman <dmarc-noreply@freelists.org> wrote:
> > ... Google search works with NetSurf on ARMX6, but not with ...
>
> How odd. I hadn't tried before but I just did. It asked me to turn on
> JS, and then the search worked. But with 4te2 I get nothing.
>
I think that may be a red herring; turning on JavaScript worked for me
on my ARMX6 for a while, and then I just got some kind of "we have
decided that you are a robot" error and it stopped working.
And Jean-Michel reported that he needed to keep wiping NetSurf's cookies
file before using Google search in order to avoid the same issue.

So it may well be completely unrelated to the OS or whether you are
using google.com or google.co.uk, and simply a random check that they
run every so many searches before flagging you up as a 'bad actor'....

--
Harriet Bazley == Loyaulte me lie ==

Abstinence makes the heart grow fonder.

[netsurf-users] Re: Google search

In article <3f66d9e85b.John@rickman.argonet.co.uk>,
John Rickman <dmarc-noreply@freelists.org> wrote:
> ... Google search works with NetSurf on ARMX6, but not with ...

How odd. I hadn't tried before but I just did. It asked me to turn on
JS, and then the search worked. But with 4te2 I get nothing.

Then (on 4te2) instead of using the Google search in NetSurf welcome page
I went to google.com and searched from there. That also worked. So the
fact that the search is initiated from the local Netsurf page rather than
from Google's website seems significant.

The URL of the search that worked was:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en-GB&source=hp&biw=&bih=&q=fred&btnG=Google+Search&iflsig=ACkRmUkAAAAAZ5-R19mlrKh1xYmpEN0bFHEzGVRCegvD&gbv=1

and of the one that didn't was:

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=fred&btnG=Google+Search

--
John Harrison
Website http://jaharrison.me.uk
Using 4té2 and ARMX6, both running RISC OS

There is no such thing as a failed experiment, only an experiment with an unexpected outcome. (Richard Buckminster-Fuller)

[netsurf-users] Re: Google search

In message <df4f70e85b.phorefaux@a9home.lan>
Paul Stewart <dmarc-noreply@freelists.org> wrote:

> I've now switched my NetSurf home page to Yahoo:
> https://uk.yahoo.com/?p=uk

> Generally loads okay with NetSurf and the search also works.

What is puzzling is that Google search works with NetSurf on ARMX6, but
not with my Qube CM4. The NetSurf version is the same on both machines. It
might ne accounted for by different levels of OSARMX6 is on 5.31 and Qube
is using 5.29.
The Qube produces a blank page for NetSurf Google searches of the
internet. If I use it to search my own website it puts up an are you a
robot page.

Curious as obviously both machines use the same internet access ip
address.

John


--
John Rickman

[netsurf-users] Re: Google search

In article <df4f70e85b.phorefaux@a9home.lan>,
Paul Stewart <dmarc-noreply@freelists.org> wrote:
> 've now switched my NetSurf home page to Yahoo:
> https://uk.yahoo.com/?p=uk

> Generally loads okay with NetSurf and the search also works.

Only in part. If you do a search and then select Images it goes blank,
and the options get scrambled so you can't easily get back. For some odd
reason that doesn't happen if I select Videos, which seems to work OK
(though obviously I can't open the videos, so not much use),

--
John Harrison
Website http://jaharrison.me.uk
Using 4té2 and ARMX6, both running RISC OS

Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change those that I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. (Reinhold Niehbuhr)

[netsurf-users] Re: Google search

In message <109836e25b.ricp@user.minijem.plus.com>
Richard Porter <ricp@minijem.plus.com> wrote:

> On 19 Jan 2025 Harriet Bazley wrote:

>> "The Google spokesperson told TechCrunch that, on average, ?fewer than
>> .1%? of searches on Google are done by people who disable JavaScript.
>> That?s no small number at Google scale. Google processes around 8.5
>> billion searches per day, so one can assume that millions of people
>> performing searches through Google aren?t using JavaScript."

> Well .1% of 8.5 billion is still a big figure.
> In any case I do have javascript turned on and still get blocked.

I've now switched my NetSurf home page to Yahoo:
https://uk.yahoo.com/?p=uk

Generally loads okay with NetSurf and the search also works.

--
Paul Stewart Sent from A9home running RISC OS 4.42

[netsurf-users] Re: Google search

On 19 Jan 2025 Harriet Bazley wrote:

> "The Google spokesperson told TechCrunch that, on average, ?fewer than
> .1%? of searches on Google are done by people who disable JavaScript.
> That?s no small number at Google scale. Google processes around 8.5
> billion searches per day, so one can assume that millions of people
> performing searches through Google aren?t using JavaScript."

Well .1% of 8.5 billion is still a big figure.
In any case I do have javascript turned on and still get blocked.
--
Richard Porter http://www.minijem.plus.com
+44 7527 165769 mailto:ricp@minijem.plus.com

[netsurf-users] Re: Google search

On 19 Jan 2025 as I do recall,
Harriet Bazley wrote:

> Google.co.uk appears to have permanently disabled search results without
> JavaScript, after intermittent blocks: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42719865
>
https://techcrunch.com/2025/01/17/google-begins-requiring-javascript-for-google-search/
"The Google spokesperson told TechCrunch that, on average, �fewer than
.1%� of searches on Google are done by people who disable JavaScript.
That�s no small number at Google scale. Google processes around 8.5
billion searches per day, so one can assume that millions of people
performing searches through Google aren�t using JavaScript."



--
H. Bazley

Wimbledon SW19 020 3581 4684

[netsurf-users] Google search

Google.co.uk appears to have permanently disabled search results without
JavaScript, after intermittent blocks: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42719865

They don't currently appear to be doing anything than testing whether JS
is enabled in the browser, rather than actually using it to manipulate
the results display, because simply switching JS on in Netsurf produces
the same listings as before (whereas it has no effect on most 'requires
JavaScript' sites beyond slowing down the rendering of the page).

DuckDuckGo displays a completely blank page with nothing in it but a
text icon, which appears to work for searching with JS both on and off,
but is not reassuring....

--
Harriet Bazley == Loyaulte me lie ==

Down with categorical imperatives!