Re: [gccsdk] GCC 4.7.4 Rel 1 Dev 2014-01-08: initial comments and feedback.

On 27/02/14 12:18, Duncan Moore wrote:
> GCCSDK GCC 4.7.4 Release 1 Development 4.7.4 2014-01-08
> SharedUnixLibrary 1.12
> VRPC RISC OS 4.39
>
> 1) I need a Wimpslot of 15MB, otherwise I get the error "Wimpslot not
> big enough to run ELF program". Is a Wimpslot of this size to be
> expected? !Help suggests that 6MB is more typical. I was previously
> using 8MB.

Yes, !Help is out of date here and refers to GCC 4.1.2, the cc1 program,
for example, (which is the actual compiler) grew in size from
just over 3.5MB in 4.1.2 to nearly 10MB in 4.7.4, so 15MB is more like
it.

> 2) I manually copied abi-1.0 into the new !SharedLibs, so that old ELF
> programs would still work. Is this how it is intended to be done (i.e. a
> manual copy of a sub-folder), or is some more elegant solution intended?
> For example: copy new !SharedLibs over the old one; or in release
> versions will all old abi-n.0 be supplied with the new !ShareLibs?

I don't think we intend on supplying the old libraries as standard with
the new ones. I think you're right on both counts above depending on
what you're starting with. If you start with the new, then copying
abi-1.0 is probably the best way, but if you start with the old, then
copying the new over the old is the best way to ensure you get the
latest SOManager module, etc.

> 3) The -mthrowback option does not do anything.

Yes, the throwback code has not been ported to the newer compiler as
yet.

> 4) This program loops infinitely:
>
> #include <stdio.h>
> int main(void) {
> for (int i=0;i<6;++i)
> printf("%i\n",i);
> return 0;
> }
>
> *gcc -std=c99 abc.c -O2
> *a/out
>
> -O1 and -O3 are OK!

I can't reproduce this. I've built using the cross and native compilers
running under rpcemu, but the program exits correctly.

Thanks for your feedback,
Lee.


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Re: Not able to run netsurf source code

On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 12:24:42PM +0530, abhishek.j wrote:
> I was trying to run the netsurf source code. I got an error saying
> libnsbmp library not installed. I downloaded it's package and tried
> to run the make file in the package but it is also giving an error
> "Makefile.top : no such file or directory". What should I do?

Please tell us what you typed in, the entire process of downloading and
building. It sounds like you've missed some steps.

B.

Re: Not able to run netsurf source code

On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 12:24:42 +0530, abhishek.j wrote:
> I was trying to run the netsurf source code. I got an error saying
> libnsbmp library not installed. I downloaded it's package and tried
> to run the make file in the package but it is also giving an error
> "Makefile.top : no such file or directory". What should I do?

Did you follow the instructions which Vincent wrote up painstakingly, and use
the environment script which we developed carefully, so that everything works?

If not, please try again before asking questions without providing sufficient
context to let us help you.

If you did, and you're getting these issues, please first try again from
scratch and second, if you re-encounter this issue, report exactly what you did
and the exact error, not an abridged and thus worthless summary.

D.

--
Daniel Silverstone http://www.netsurf-browser.org/
PGP mail accepted and encouraged. Key Id: 3CCE BABE 206C 3B69

Not able to run netsurf source code

I was trying to run the netsurf source code. I got an error saying
libnsbmp library not installed. I downloaded it's package and tried to
run the make file in the package but it is also giving an error
"Makefile.top : no such file or directory". What should I do?

[gccsdk] GCC 4.7.4 Rel 1 Dev 2014-01-08: initial comments and feedback.

GCCSDK GCC 4.7.4 Release 1 Development 4.7.4 2014-01-08
SharedUnixLibrary 1.12
VRPC RISC OS 4.39

1) I need a Wimpslot of 15MB, otherwise I get the error "Wimpslot not
big enough to run ELF program". Is a Wimpslot of this size to be
expected? !Help suggests that 6MB is more typical. I was previously
using 8MB.

2) I manually copied abi-1.0 into the new !SharedLibs, so that old ELF
programs would still work. Is this how it is intended to be done (i.e. a
manual copy of a sub-folder), or is some more elegant solution intended?
For example: copy new !SharedLibs over the old one; or in release
versions will all old abi-n.0 be supplied with the new !ShareLibs?

3) The -mthrowback option does not do anything.

4) This program loops infinitely:

#include <stdio.h>
int main(void) {
for (int i=0;i<6;++i)
printf("%i\n",i);
return 0;
}

*gcc -std=c99 abc.c -O2
*a/out

-O1 and -O3 are OK!

Regards
Duncan Moore


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Re: downloads always set to filetype F80

John Rickman Iyonix wrote

>>From this URL - http://www.stevefryatt.org.uk/software/float/

> On RISC OS RaspBerry Pi the file, "float036.zip" is downloaded and
> saved as "float036" and given a filetype of &F80.
> (NS #1702)

> On the Iyonix the .zip suffix is retained but the file type is still
> set to &F80.
> (NS #1740)

Have just noticed that suffix retention is an option on the Interface
choices.


--
John Rickman - http://rickman.orpheusweb.co.uk/lynx
"Poetry is a MUG's game" - TS Eliot

Re: downloads always set to filetype F80

On 26 Feb 2014 John Rickman Iyonix wrote:

> NetSurf downloads always set filetype of &F80 (XML?) and I have to
> retype to ZIP, PDF etc as appropriate.

> Is this just happening on my machine?

Probably the remote server not sending the correct (or any)
content-type. This quite often happens with email attachments too.

--
Richard Porter http://www.minijem.plus.com/
Skype: minijem2 mailto:ricp@minijem.plus.com
I don't want a "user experience" - I just want stuff that works.

Re: downloads always set to filetype F80

Rob Kendrick wrote

> On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 08:56:41PM +0000, John Rickman Iyonix wrote:
>>
>> NetSurf downloads always set filetype of &F80 (XML?) and I have to
>> retype to ZIP, PDF etc as appropriate.
>>
>> Is this just happening on my machine?

> Always? From everywhere? For every file type?

>From this URL - http://www.stevefryatt.org.uk/software/float/

On RISC OS RaspBerry Pi the file, "float036.zip" is downloaded and
saved as "float036" and given a filetype of &F80.
(NS #1702)

On the Iyonix the .zip suffix is retained but the file type is still
set to &F80.
(NS #1740)

--
John Rickman - http://rickman.orpheusweb.co.uk/lynx

Re: downloads always set to filetype F80

On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 08:56:41PM +0000, John Rickman Iyonix wrote:
>
> NetSurf downloads always set filetype of &F80 (XML?) and I have to
> retype to ZIP, PDF etc as appropriate.
>
> Is this just happening on my machine?

Always? From everywhere? For every file type?

B.

downloads always set to filetype F80

NetSurf downloads always set filetype of &F80 (XML?) and I have to
retype to ZIP, PDF etc as appropriate.

Is this just happening on my machine?

John


--
John Rickman - http://rickman.orpheusweb.co.uk/lynx
John Rickman - http://www.gaydon.org.uk/

Re: Google Images search not working

On 24 Feb 2014, John Rickman Iyonix <rickman@argonet.co.uk> wrote:

> For the past several years I have used NetSurf for finding images on
> the web via Google Images search.
>
> Google puts up a page of images for the search term. Then a click on
> an image used to bring up a web page with an option to see the impage
> full size. This no longer seems to work with NetSurf.

Clicking on an image now leads to the web-page containing the image. As
you say, the option of displaying the full-size image, without visiting
the host web-page, is no longer available.

> The way that Google presents the image page has changed. It is still
> usable with Chrome on Linux.

... and with Firefox on Windows.

> Can anyone confirm this change and better still suggest how I can
> continue to use NetSurf for image searching?

Netsurf _can_ still be used for image-search, it's just a little more
tedious in having to retrieve the image from its host web-page.

Tony

Google Images search not working

For the past several years I have used NetSurf for finding images on
the web via Google Images search.

Google puts up a page of images for the search term. Then a click on
an image used to bring up a web page with an option to see the impage
full size. This no longer seems to work with NetSurf.

The way that Google presents the image page has changed. It is still
usable with Chrome on Linux.

Can anyone confirm this change and better still suggest how I can
continue to use NetSurf for image searching?

John

--
John Rickman - http://rickman.orpheusweb.co.uk/lynx
"Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darueber muss man schweigen."

Re: RISC OS Emulator

On Mon, Feb 24, 2014 at 10:50:51AM +0530, Prabhjot Singh wrote:
> Hi
> I am a student developer from New Delhi, India. I just went through the GSoc ideas page of NetSurf and would like to start my contribution journey by submitting a few patches. I went through the list of bugs and I wish to submit a patch to the bug 0002078: Slow shutdown.
> Which emulator should I prefer for RISC OS or are there any other solutions as well?

RPCEmu can be made to work with freely-available ROMs from RISC OS Open.

B.

RISC OS Emulator

Hi 

I am a student developer from New Delhi, India. I just went through the GSoc ideas page of NetSurf and would like to start my contribution journey by submitting a few patches. I went through the list of bugs and I wish to submit a patch to the bug 0002078: Slow shutdown. 
Which emulator should I prefer for RISC OS or are there any other solutions as well?

Regards

Prabhjot Singh

Re: [Rpcemu] rpcemu on Mint Petra

looks like the dev package for allegro is missing.

best regards,

Jan Rinze.

2014-02-21 18:08 GMT+01:00 Philip Glover <philip@theglovers.name>:

Last August I upgraded from Mint 14 to 15. and had difficulties with getting rpcemu to run, and had help from several sources, including a zip-file of 0.8.11 from Chris Gransden which did the trick.
    Maybe  should have learnt my lesson, but have now gone to Mint16 xfce. I find that if I try to use 0.8.11 I am told "cannot run binary file", and the file window has all sorts of weird symbols scattered across it. If I go back to the zip file and install, I get the same result. All is well if I use 0.8.10 and Riscos 5.21. I tried to compile afresh using the hints in Chris' posting of 08 Aug '13, but landed up with the following at the "make" stage

-- make[1]: Entering directory `/home/philip/rpcemu-0.8.11/src'

gcc -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I.     -DDYNAREC -Wall -O2 -MT rpcemu-cmos.o -MD -MP -MF .deps/rpcemu-cmos.Tpo -c -o rpcemu-cmos.o `test -f 'cmos.c' || echo './'`cmos.c
cmos.c:9:21: fatal error: allegro.h: No such file or directory
 #include <allegro.h>
                     ^
compilation terminated.
make[1]: *** [rpcemu-cmos.o] Error 1
make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/philip/rpcemu-0.8.11/src'
make: *** [all] Error 2
philip@philip-Aspire-R3600 ~/rpcemu-0.8.11/src $ make

I have all the recommended Allegro packages installed, so am puzzled by this. Any help gratefully received.

--
Regards,
Philip Glover


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[Rpcemu] rpcemu on Mint Petra

Last August I upgraded from Mint 14 to 15. and had difficulties with
getting rpcemu to run, and had help from several sources, including a
zip-file of 0.8.11 from Chris Gransden which did the trick.
Maybe should have learnt my lesson, but have now gone to Mint16
xfce. I find that if I try to use 0.8.11 I am told "cannot run binary
file", and the file window has all sorts of weird symbols scattered
across it. If I go back to the zip file and install, I get the same
result. All is well if I use 0.8.10 and Riscos 5.21. I tried to compile
afresh using the hints in Chris' posting of 08 Aug '13, but landed up
with the following at the "make" stage

-- make[1]: Entering directory `/home/philip/rpcemu-0.8.11/src'

> gcc -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -DDYNAREC -Wall -O2 -MT rpcemu-cmos.o -MD
> -MP -MF .deps/rpcemu-cmos.Tpo -c -o rpcemu-cmos.o `test -f 'cmos.c' ||
> echo './'`cmos.c
> cmos.c:9:21: fatal error: allegro.h: No such file or directory
> #include <allegro.h>
> ^
> compilation terminated.
> make[1]: *** [rpcemu-cmos.o] Error 1
> make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/philip/rpcemu-0.8.11/src'
> make: *** [all] Error 2
> philip@philip-Aspire-R3600 ~/rpcemu-0.8.11/src $ make
I have all the recommended Allegro packages installed, so am puzzled by
this. Any help gratefully received.

--
Regards,
Philip Glover


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Haiku port broken

Hi,
I noticed the Haiku build fails:

In file included from
/work/netsurf/workspace/netsurf/beos/scaffolding.cpp:55:
/work/netsurf/workspace/netsurf/desktop/browser_history.h:38: parse
error before `new'

Can someone change this argument to "nw" or anything else so I don't
have to do ugly things like #define new new_ #include ... #undef new ?

François.

Re: Dev Cl #1717

In article <53d9b56fa2bbailey@argonet.co.uk>,
Brian <bbailey@argonet.co.uk> wrote:

[Snip]

> Who was it who said, 'if you would converse with me, you must first
> define your terms'?

#Voltaire

--
_____________________________________________________________________

Brian Jordan
Virtual RPC-AdjustSA on Windows 8.1 Pro
RISC OS 6.20
_____________________________________________________________________


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Re: Cursor doesn' follow typing

On Thu, 13 Feb 2014 23:44:40 +0000
Rob Kendrick <rjek@netsurf-browser.org> wrote:

> On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 10:35:13PM +0100, palama@inwind.it wrote:
> > Hi,
> > I am a newcomer to the list and have a problem with netsurf which I am unable
> > to solve.
> > I'm trying to use netsurf on a i386 Debian Jessie box.
>
> There is no such thing. Do you mean Debian Testing? Sid? What version of NetSurf
> are you using?
>
Thanks for your prompt answer, Rob.
Yes, I meam Debian Testing which is codenamed Jessie. Netsurf version is 2.9-2.

> > If I start netsurf with the default homepage www.google.com and type a string
> > of 7 "a"s in the search field,
> > the cursor in the field moves slower than the right end of the string. After 7
> > "a" the cursor is between the 6th and the 6th "a" instead of being at the
> > right
> > of the 7th "a" as it should be. It seems that the routine that moves the
> > cursor
> > underestimates the space occupied by the string by a factor of 6/7.
> > Do you have any suggestion to solve the problem?
>
> A patch :)
>
> More seriously, is this the GTK front end, or the framebuffer? If the
> later, which renderer? SDL? Frambuffer? X?
>
I don't know. I start netsurf which connects to the default homepage
http://www.netsurf-browser.com/welcome
and I am presented with a field I can write in with "Google searc" on the right.
"Google searc" and not "Google search", another indication of netsurf unerestimating the lenght of a string.
Is there any test I can perform to find out in which program (GTK frontend, framebufer or other) is the problem generated?
Thank you for your help.
Best,
Palama

--
<palama@inwind.it>

Dev Cl #1717

In article <53d83f69e8bbailey@argonet.co.uk>, Brian
<bbailey@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <53d83d6e6ebrian.jordan9@btinternet.com>, Brian Jordan
> <brian.jordan9@btinternet.com> wrote:
> > In article <53d83be5c4bbailey@argonet.co.uk>, Brian
> > <bbailey@argonet.co.uk> wrote:

> > [Snip]

> > > Who'd have thought it?? Certainly not me. I'm intuitive but not that
> > > intuitive. I assumed that # was as per American practice and is part
> > > of any/all part codes.

> > I think the logic is that the "#" is in the caption alongside the box
> > in much the same way as we often see "£" alongside boxes when a sum of
> > money needs to be entered. Several of us seem to have fallen foul of
> > this and had to rewrite our reports, I reccommend writing reports in a
> > text editor and saving them as insurance and not putting the "#" in
> > the version number.

> OK, Brian, but I'm not into guessology. # is not a British convention
> anyway so far as I am aware, for some 80ish years, it's a hindrance! Why
> put it there when it serves no useful purpose, I ask?

Perhaps if anyone is interested to see just how confusing the use of the #
is have a look at Wikipedia - Number sign. In American practice I've often
seen it added onto British nomenclature to, possibly, mean item number,
part number, mark number, or whatever, without adding any useful
intelligent information. Having handled many 100,000's of British
manufacturing and development drawings, spares and component data sheets,
as well as specifications, I don't recall ever seeing the use of the #
sign. If I recall correctly, parts columns were invariably headed Part No.
Without defining what # means it follows that it is meaningless.

Who was it who said, 'if you would converse with me, you must first define
your terms'?

Re: Cursor doesn' follow typing

On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 10:35:13PM +0100, palama@inwind.it wrote:
> Hi,
> I am a newcomer to the list and have a problem with netsurf which I am unable
> to solve.
> I'm trying to use netsurf on a i386 Debian Jessie box.

There is no such thing. Do you mean Debian Testing? Sid? What version of NetSurf
are you using?

> If I start netsurf with the default homepage www.google.com and type a string
> of 7 "a"s in the search field,
> the cursor in the field moves slower than the right end of the string. After 7
> "a" the cursor is between the 6th and the 6th "a" instead of being at the
> right
> of the 7th "a" as it should be. It seems that the routine that moves the
> cursor
> underestimates the space occupied by the string by a factor of 6/7.
> Do you have any suggestion to solve the problem?

A patch :)

More seriously, is this the GTK front end, or the framebuffer? If the
later, which renderer? SDL? Frambuffer? X?

B.

Cursor doesn' follow typing

Hi,
I am a newcomer to the list and have a problem with netsurf which I am unable
to solve.
I'm trying to use netsurf on a i386 Debian Jessie box.
If I start netsurf with the default homepage www.google.com and type a string
of 7 "a"s in the search field,
the cursor in the field moves slower than the right end of the string. After 7
"a" the cursor is between the 6th and the 6th "a" instead of being at the
right
of the 7th "a" as it should be. It seems that the routine that moves the
cursor
underestimates the space occupied by the string by a factor of 6/7.
Do you have any suggestion to solve the problem?
Best,
Palama

url field

I noticed a couple of oddities that may just be the Atari version.

1. I opened an incomplete url and got a "bad url" error. So I
closed the Netsurf window and tried to open another.
Instead of an empty window I got the bad url error again. I had to
exit and restart Netsurf.

2. I tried to append some characters onto the url field but
instead of the extra characters being added the url was replaced
with the pasted item.

Using version 1718 but I know these have been around for a while.

Regards,

Peter

Re: dates of !Boot and !System within download

In article <53d954c84abrian.jordan9@btinternet.com>,
Brian Jordan <brian.jordan9@btinternet.com> wrote:

> I work on the assumption that if a merge-boot or merge-system is required
> that NetSurf will let me know with an appropriate message.

Me too.

I only bother with the other stuff in the download if !NetSurf complains.

--
Stuart Winsor

Re: dates of !Boot and !System within download

In message <bb6367d953.jim@abbeypress.net>
Jim Nagel <netsurf@abbeypress.co.uk> wrote:

> Brian Jordan wrote on 13 Feb:
>
>> In article <9b5f51d953.jim@abbeypress.net>,
>> Jim Nagel <netsurf@abbeypress.co.uk> wrote:
>>> Suggestion to the Netsurf team:
>
>>> Please, could you include an extra "Readme-date" file in the download
>>> zipfile that would simply state in plain text the date of the last
>>> actual change and words to the effect that "If you have updated !Boot
>>> and !System since this date, there is no need to do it this time."
>
>>> It would save the chore of going to every machine and repepetititively
>>> performing the merge-boot and merge-system rigamarole when it isn't
>>> necessary. (The rest of the job of updating the !Netsurf application
>>> on all stations can be done over the network.) Thanks.
>
>
>> I work on the assumption that if a merge-boot or merge-system is required
>> that NetSurf will let me know with an appropriate message. Otherwise I
>> just let NetSurf get on with it. Am I under vigilant or are you over
>> vigilant? It seems to me that the NetSurf team have far bigger fish than
>> this to fry.
>
> Maybe I am being overpunctilious, but I'm just following the
> instructions in the existing&unchanging Readme that comes as part of
> the download.
>
>>From what you say, I can see that Netsurf might give a warning about a
> module being out of date. But the Unicode stuff is not modules:
> would Netsurf warn if any Unicode files are missing or outdated?
>
>
I am in the 'ALWAYS update !Boot and !System' camp. I often notice,
when doing so, that the hourglass/percentage twitches briefly into
life, which suggests that something is being overwritten, i.e.,
altered, presumably necessarily.

--
george greenfield

Re: dates of !Boot and !System within download

Brian Jordan wrote on 13 Feb:

> In article <9b5f51d953.jim@abbeypress.net>,
> Jim Nagel <netsurf@abbeypress.co.uk> wrote:
>> Suggestion to the Netsurf team:

>> Please, could you include an extra "Readme-date" file in the download
>> zipfile that would simply state in plain text the date of the last
>> actual change and words to the effect that "If you have updated !Boot
>> and !System since this date, there is no need to do it this time."

>> It would save the chore of going to every machine and repepetititively
>> performing the merge-boot and merge-system rigamarole when it isn't
>> necessary. (The rest of the job of updating the !Netsurf application
>> on all stations can be done over the network.) Thanks.


> I work on the assumption that if a merge-boot or merge-system is required
> that NetSurf will let me know with an appropriate message. Otherwise I
> just let NetSurf get on with it. Am I under vigilant or are you over
> vigilant? It seems to me that the NetSurf team have far bigger fish than
> this to fry.

Maybe I am being overpunctilious, but I'm just following the
instructions in the existing&unchanging Readme that comes as part of
the download.

>From what you say, I can see that Netsurf might give a warning about a
module being out of date. But the Unicode stuff is not modules:
would Netsurf warn if any Unicode files are missing or outdated?


--
Jim Nagel www.archivemag.co.uk
|| See you at the SW show? March 1 www.riscos-swshow.co.uk

Re: dates of !Boot and !System within download

On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 12:56:17PM +0000, Brian Jordan wrote:

> I work on the assumption that if a merge-boot or merge-system is required
> that NetSurf will let me know with an appropriate message. Otherwise I
> just let NetSurf get on with it. Am I under vigilant or are you over
> vigilant? It seems to me that the NetSurf team have far bigger fish than
> this to fry.

This has been discussed before, and if memory serves, Brian is correct
in everything he says here.

B.

Re: dates of !Boot and !System within download

In article <9b5f51d953.jim@abbeypress.net>,
Jim Nagel <netsurf@abbeypress.co.uk> wrote:

[Snip]

> Suggestion to the Netsurf team:

> Please, could you include an extra "Readme-date" file in the download
> zipfile that would simply state in plain text the date of the last
> actual change and words to the effect that "If you have updated !Boot
> and !System since this date, there is no need to do it this time."

> It would save the chore of going to every machine and repepetititively
> performing the merge-boot and merge-system rigamarole when it isn't
> necessary. (The rest of the job of updating the !Netsurf application
> on all stations can be done over the network.) Thanks.

[Snip]

I work on the assumption that if a merge-boot or merge-system is required
that NetSurf will let me know with an appropriate message. Otherwise I
just let NetSurf get on with it. Am I under vigilant or are you over
vigilant? It seems to me that the NetSurf team have far bigger fish than
this to fry.

--
_____________________________________________________________________

Brian Jordan
Virtual RPC-AdjustSA on Windows 8.1 Pro
RISC OS 6.20
_____________________________________________________________________


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dates of !Boot and !System within download

I have just downloaded the current development version,
NetSurf-gcc-json-1718/zip and am in the throes of installing it on
several machines here.

Datestamps on the !Boot and !System folders and all their contents
were lost again sometime before 2014-02-04 (possibly before
2013-04-25, which is the previous time I logged this). It's
apparently difficult for the autobuilder(?) to maintain true
datestamps on these files.

Suggestion to the Netsurf team:

Please, could you include an extra "Readme-date" file in the download
zipfile that would simply state in plain text the date of the last
actual change and words to the effect that "If you have updated !Boot
and !System since this date, there is no need to do it this time."

It would save the chore of going to every machine and repepetititively
performing the merge-boot and merge-system rigamarole when it isn't
necessary. (The rest of the job of updating the !Netsurf application
on all stations can be done over the network.) Thanks.



Here are actual internal dates of modules in today's download. The
most recent update was in fact more than a year ago.

In the !System.310.Modules directory:
CryptRandom 0.13 (01 Jun 2012) © Theo Markettos theo@markettos.org.uk
Iconv 0.12 (20 Jan 2013)
SharedUnixLibrary 1.10 (10 Apr 2006) (C) UnixLib Developers, 2001-2006
Tinct 0.14 (25 Apr 2009) [fr]

In the !System.310.Modules.Network directory:
AcornURI 1.04 (20 May 2006) © Christian Ludlam


The !Boot in today's download contains !Boot.Resources.!Unicode, which
is an application containing 78 files (encodings and other stuff).
All of them are stamped 2014-02-04, and unfortunately none of them
have internal dates.

--
Jim Nagel www.archivemag.co.uk
|| See you at the SW show? March 1 www.riscos-swshow.co.uk

Re: Dev Cl #1717 -- bug-tracker peeve

Rob Kendrick wrote on 13 Feb:
> ...back then the same issue happened ("occurs in revision" field not
> accepting an "r") and yet nobody complained!

My point was just a general one that software needs to anticipate that
different users might input stuff in ways that are obvious with
hindsight.


--
Jim Nagel www.archivemag.co.uk
|| See you at the SW show? March 1 www.riscos-swshow.co.uk

Re: Dev Cl #1717 -- bug-tracker peeve

On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 03:24:19AM -0800, Dave Higton wrote:
>
> I think Netsurf is alone in RISC OS applications in having a version
> number incorporating a hash.

It's not a version number, it is a test build number. And it's odd that
nobody complained about test build numbers beginning with "r" when we
used Subversion instead of git, and how back then the same issue
happened ("occurs in revision" field not accepting an "r") and yet
nobody complained!

B.

Re: Dev Cl #1717 -- bug-tracker peeve

On Thu, 13 Feb 2014 10:59:06 GMT Jim Nagel wrote:

> You'd think the software behind the bug-tracker could simply ignore
> the "#" if people type it in this box. It would seem natural enough
> for a user to type it, since "#" is shown loud&clear in the Netsurf
> info box as part of the version number.
>
> Hits on the same pet peeve as websites that throw hissyfits if you
> type a credit-card number exactly as shown on the card with the spaces
> that make it human-readable and human-checkable. Ditto phone numbers.

Agreed!

This does suggest that Netsurf should display its version number in
the Info box WITHOUT the hash. The hash doesn't add anything. This
thread indicates that it has confused users.

I think Netsurf is alone in RISC OS applications in having a version
number incorporating a hash.

Dave

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Re: Dev Cl #1717 -- bug-tracker peeve

On 13 Feb 2014 Jim Nagel wrote:

> You'd think the software behind the bug-tracker could simply ignore
> the "#" if people type it in this box. It would seem natural enough
> for a user to type it, since "#" is shown loud&clear in the Netsurf
> info box as part of the version number.

Well there is a # to the left of the text input box so it's reasonable
to assume that you have to enter what comes after the #.

> Hits on the same pet peeve as websites that throw hissyfits if you
> type a credit-card number exactly as shown on the card with the spaces
> that make it human-readable and human-checkable. Ditto phone numbers.

I agree although don't have a problem with credit card or phone
numbers. I do get annoyed with sites that try to be too clever and
then give you an error message if you enter a sort code with hyphens
or a date with slashes.

--
Richard Porter http://www.minijem.plus.com/
Skype: minijem2 mailto:ricp@minijem.plus.com
I don't want a "user experience" - I just want stuff that works.

Re: Dev Cl #1717 -- bug-tracker peeve

Brian Bailey wrote on 11 Feb:
> ... I'm not into guessology. # is not a British convention
> anyway so far as I am aware, for some 80ish years, it's a hindrance! Why
> put it there when it serves no useful purpose, I ask?

You'd think the software behind the bug-tracker could simply ignore
the "#" if people type it in this box. It would seem natural enough
for a user to type it, since "#" is shown loud&clear in the Netsurf
info box as part of the version number.

Hits on the same pet peeve as websites that throw hissyfits if you
type a credit-card number exactly as shown on the card with the spaces
that make it human-readable and human-checkable. Ditto phone numbers.

--
Jim Nagel www.archivemag.co.uk
|| See you at the SW show? March 1 www.riscos-swshow.co.uk

Re: Hubbub "has_children" tree callback no longer used?

Thanks for your assessment, much appreciated!

Ralf

On 12.02.2014 19:05, John-Mark Bell wrote:

> Please reply to the list and not directly to me. Thanks.
>
> On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 06:05:28PM +0100, Ralf Junker wrote:
>
>> On 12.02.2014 17:01, John-Mark Bell wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 05:10:35PM +0100, Ralf Junker wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hence I believe that the "has_children" callback could (and should?) be
>>>> removed from the hubbub_tree_handler.
>>>
>>> That would be an ABI break, which we strive to avoid. However, the next
>>> release of Hubbub already breaks the ABI in other areas, so I'm inclined
>>> to take the opportunity to remove that treebuilder callback entry.
>>
>> I am all for it, unless ...
>>
>>> Of course, it might resurface later, should we ever get around to
>>> bringing Hubbub's implementation back in line with the specification.
>>> Somewhat embarrassingly, it's nearly 5 years out of date.
>>
>> ... Hubbub requires the has_children callback to meet the specification.
>> If so, I would prefer to leave it in now to avoid ABI breaks in the
>> future.
>
> Well, fundamentally, I don't think we're anywhere near a position where
> the Hubbub's ABI can be called stable, regardless of this specific case.
> 5 years of specification changes will have a great deal of impact. Until
> Hubbub is updated, it's almost impossible to know what will change.
>
>> Since documentation is somewhat scarce, could you name parts of the
>> specifications Hubbub currently does not conform to? I am not asking for
>> an exhaustive list, just some clues to give me a rough idea.
>
> The only part of the HTML specification which is relevant to Hubbub is
> the chapter on parsing (and anything it references). I'm not going to
> quote the section numbers, as that's liable to change as the
> specification evolves.
>
> As docs/Updated states, the last time Hubbub matched the specified
> behaviour was 2009-03-10. The specification has changed a great deal
> since then (and no, we have not done a gap analysis to see where the
> differences lie).

Re: Hubbub "has_children" tree callback no longer used?

Please reply to the list and not directly to me. Thanks.

On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 06:05:28PM +0100, Ralf Junker wrote:
> On 12.02.2014 17:01, John-Mark Bell wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 05:10:35PM +0100, Ralf Junker wrote:
>>
>>> Hence I believe that the "has_children" callback could (and should?) be
>>> removed from the hubbub_tree_handler.
>>
>> That would be an ABI break, which we strive to avoid. However, the next
>> release of Hubbub already breaks the ABI in other areas, so I'm inclined
>> to take the opportunity to remove that treebuilder callback entry.
>
> I am all for it, unless ...
>
>> Of course, it might resurface later, should we ever get around to
>> bringing Hubbub's implementation back in line with the specification.
>> Somewhat embarrassingly, it's nearly 5 years out of date.
>
> ... Hubbub requires the has_children callback to meet the specification.
> If so, I would prefer to leave it in now to avoid ABI breaks in the
> future.

Well, fundamentally, I don't think we're anywhere near a position where
the Hubbub's ABI can be called stable, regardless of this specific case.
5 years of specification changes will have a great deal of impact. Until
Hubbub is updated, it's almost impossible to know what will change.

> Since documentation is somewhat scarce, could you name parts of the
> specifications Hubbub currently does not conform to? I am not asking for
> an exhaustive list, just some clues to give me a rough idea.

The only part of the HTML specification which is relevant to Hubbub is
the chapter on parsing (and anything it references). I'm not going to
quote the section numbers, as that's liable to change as the
specification evolves.

As docs/Updated states, the last time Hubbub matched the specified
behaviour was 2009-03-10. The specification has changed a great deal
since then (and no, we have not done a gap analysis to see where the
differences lie).


J.

Re: Curl threaded resolver

On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 16:03:53 +0000, John-Mark Bell wrote:

> Good news. Can we attempt to upstream this patch, please? I'd like to
> minimise the patches against upstream libraries we have.

Yes, agreed, and already queried this. Apparently there are some
changes being made to Roadshow (OS4's TCP/IP stack) to make
gethostbyname thread-safe. Once this is done, if we need a patch at
all, it will look very different. So I think it is prudent to wait.

Chris

Re: Curl threaded resolver

On Sun, Feb 09, 2014 at 03:09:01PM +0000, Chris Young wrote:
> On Sun, 9 Feb 2014 11:15:17 +0000, Vincent Sanders wrote:
>
> > > If somebody can give Jenkins a prod so it rebuilds the ppc-amigaos
> > > toolchain that'd be great. :)
> >
> > And the monkey flipped the switch ;-) should be done in about 50minutes
>
> All working, thanks! I'll send a banana over :)

Good news. Can we attempt to upstream this patch, please? I'd like to
minimise the patches against upstream libraries we have.


J.

Re: Hubbub "has_children" tree callback no longer used?

On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 05:10:35PM +0100, Ralf Junker wrote:
> In Hubbub, the "has_children" tree callback is never used.
>
> It is defined in hubbub\include\hubbub\tree.h, line 286.
>
> With that line commented out, Hubbub still compiles fine and tests pass
> without error.

Correct: the specification changed under us, which rendered that
callback unused.

> Hence I believe that the "has_children" callback could (and should?) be
> removed from the hubbub_tree_handler.

That would be an ABI break, which we strive to avoid. However, the next
release of Hubbub already breaks the ABI in other areas, so I'm inclined
to take the opportunity to remove that treebuilder callback entry.

Of course, it might resurface later, should we ever get around to
bringing Hubbub's implementation back in line with the specification.
Somewhat embarrassingly, it's nearly 5 years out of date.


J.

Re: 3.1 (DEV Cl #1718)

On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 10:15:43AM +0000, Brian wrote:

Can I suggest you change your desktop font? It appears to render CI and
Cl the same way.

(It's Continuous Integration.)

B.

Re: 3.1 (DEV Cl #1718)

In article <53d8bef100brian.jordan9@btinternet.com>,
Brian Jordan <brian.jordan9@btinternet.com> wrote:
> In article <53d8b79bb6bbailey@argonet.co.uk>,
> Brian <bbailey@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> > Re:

> > http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/olympuse5

> > when trying to activate the menu choices from 1. Introduction through
> > to 14. Conclusion, causes NetSurf serious crash.

> Same here, so I have put it on the tracker.

Thank you.

Brian

Re: 3.1 (DEV Cl #1718)

In article <53d8b79bb6bbailey@argonet.co.uk>,
Brian <bbailey@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> Re:

> http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/olympuse5

> when trying to activate the menu choices from 1. Introduction through
> to 14. Conclusion, causes NetSurf serious crash.

Same here, so I have put it on the tracker.

Brian

--
_____________________________________________________________________

Brian Jordan
Virtual RPC-AdjustSA on Windows 8.1 Pro
RISC OS 6.20
_____________________________________________________________________


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3.1 (DEV Cl #1718)

Re:

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/olympuse5

when trying to activate the menu choices from 1. Introduction through to
14. Conclusion, causes NetSurf serious crash.

Hubbub "has_children" tree callback no longer used?

In Hubbub, the "has_children" tree callback is never used.

It is defined in hubbub\include\hubbub\tree.h, line 286.

With that line commented out, Hubbub still compiles fine and tests pass
without error.

Hence I believe that the "has_children" callback could (and should?) be
removed from the hubbub_tree_handler.

What do NetSurf developers think?

Ralf

Re: Dev Cl #1717

On 11 Feb 2014 Peter Young <pnyoung@ormail.co.uk> wrote:

> On 11 Feb 2014 Brian <bbailey@argonet.co.uk> wrote:

>> In article <b00735d853.pnyoung@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk>,
>> Peter Young <pnyoung@ormail.co.uk> wrote:
>>> On 11 Feb 2014 Brian <bbailey@argonet.co.uk> wrote:

>>>> Re:

>>>> http://500px.com/Valtsu

>>>> does not render completely and crashes on 'PORTFOLIO'

>>> Confirmed here. Are you going to report it on the bug tracker?

>> Ah, well, I guess that was predictable. Bug tracker says I got something
>> wrong, I don't know what, asked me to return to the previous page to
>> correct whatever, which it didn't.

> If it's the same as I saw here, entering the NS version number has to
> be done without the #, or the site has a hissy-fit.

>> Perhaps someone else would like to have a go?!?

> Duly done.

And duly resolved! The formatting is still wrong, though.

Best wishes,

Peter.

--
Peter Young (zfc W) and family
Prestbury, Cheltenham, Glos. GL52, England
http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk
pnyoung@ormail.co.uk

Re: Dev Cl #1717

In article <53d83d6e6ebrian.jordan9@btinternet.com>,
Brian Jordan <brian.jordan9@btinternet.com> wrote:
> In article <53d83be5c4bbailey@argonet.co.uk>,
> Brian <bbailey@argonet.co.uk> wrote:

> [Snip]

> > Who'd have thought it?? Certainly not me. I'm intuitive but not that
> > intuitive. I assumed that # was as per American practice and is part of
> > any/all part codes.

> I think the logic is that the "#" is in the caption alongside the box in
> much the same way as we often see "£" alongside boxes when a sum of money
> needs to be entered. Several of us seem to have fallen foul of this and
> had to rewrite our reports, I reccommend writing reports in a text editor
> and saving them as insurance and not putting the "#" in the version
> number.

OK, Brian, but I'm not into guessology. # is not a British convention
anyway so far as I am aware, for some 80ish years, it's a hindrance! Why
put it there when it serves no useful purpose, I ask?

Re: Dev Cl #1717

In article <53d83be5c4bbailey@argonet.co.uk>,
Brian <bbailey@argonet.co.uk> wrote:

[Snip]

> Who'd have thought it?? Certainly not me. I'm intuitive but not that
> intuitive. I assumed that # was as per American practice and is part of
> any/all part codes.

I think the logic is that the "#" is in the caption alongside the box in
much the same way as we often see "£" alongside boxes when a sum of money
needs to be entered. Several of us seem to have fallen foul of this and
had to rewrite our reports, I reccommend writing reports in a text editor
and saving them as insurance and not putting the "#" in the version
number.

--
_____________________________________________________________________

Brian Jordan
Virtual RPC-AdjustSA on Windows 8.1 Pro
RISC OS 6.20
_____________________________________________________________________


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Re: Dev Cl #1717

In article <d1cf3ad853.pnyoung@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk>, Peter Young
<pnyoung@ormail.co.uk> wrote:
> On 11 Feb 2014 Brian <bbailey@argonet.co.uk> wrote:

> > In article <b00735d853.pnyoung@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk>, Peter Young
> > <pnyoung@ormail.co.uk> wrote:
> >> On 11 Feb 2014 Brian <bbailey@argonet.co.uk> wrote:

> >>> Re:

> >>> http://500px.com/Valtsu

> >>> does not render completely and crashes on 'PORTFOLIO'

> >> Confirmed here. Are you going to report it on the bug tracker?

> > Ah, well, I guess that was predictable. Bug tracker says I got
> > something wrong, I don't know what, asked me to return to the previous
> > page to correct whatever, which it didn't.

> If it's the same as I saw here, entering the NS version number has to
> be done without the #, or the site has a hissy-fit.

Who'd have thought it?? Certainly not me. I'm intuitive but not that
intuitive. I assumed that # was as per American practice and is part of
any/all part codes.

> > Perhaps someone else would like to have a go?!?

> Duly done.

Have a good trip, Peter.

Brian

Re: Dev Cl #1717

In article <d1cf3ad853.pnyoung@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk>,
Peter Young <pnyoung@ormail.co.uk> wrote:
> On 11 Feb 2014 Brian <bbailey@argonet.co.uk> wrote:

> > In article <b00735d853.pnyoung@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk>,
> > Peter Young <pnyoung@ormail.co.uk> wrote:
> >> On 11 Feb 2014 Brian <bbailey@argonet.co.uk> wrote:

> >>> Re:

> >>> http://500px.com/Valtsu

> >>> does not render completely and crashes on 'PORTFOLIO'

> >> Confirmed here. Are you going to report it on the bug tracker?

> > Ah, well, I guess that was predictable. Bug tracker says I got
> > something wrong, I don't know what, asked me to return to the
> > previous page to correct whatever, which it didn't.

> If it's the same as I saw here, entering the NS version number has to
> be done without the #, or the site has a hissy-fit.

> > Perhaps someone else would like to have a go?!?

We crossed in the post, so I'll not send it. And yes the # seems to be
the issue, certainly the tracker accepts reports with the NS version
number left blank.

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RISC OS 6.20
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Re: Dev Cl #1717

In article <53d838bf45bbailey@argonet.co.uk>,
Brian <bbailey@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <b00735d853.pnyoung@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk>,
> Peter Young <pnyoung@ormail.co.uk> wrote:
> > On 11 Feb 2014 Brian <bbailey@argonet.co.uk> wrote:

> > > Re:

> > > http://500px.com/Valtsu

> > > does not render completely and crashes on 'PORTFOLIO'

> > Confirmed here. Are you going to report it on the bug tracker?

> Ah, well, I guess that was predictable. Bug tracker says I got
> something wrong, I don't know what, asked me to return to the previous
> page to correct whatever, which it didn't.

> Perhaps someone else would like to have a go?!?

> > I have the logfile here, so could do that, though today is a busy
> > one. Off to Australia tomorrow with my daughter and family!

Peter, if you haven't yet sent this to the tracker relax and get ready
for your trip down under and I'll submit this one as I have something
else for the tracker. Out of interest the problem Brian has reported
trips up stable versions 2.9 and 3.0 as well.

Have a great holiday (or are you deserting soggy Gloucestershire for
good?)

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Re: Dev Cl #1717

On 11 Feb 2014 Brian <bbailey@argonet.co.uk> wrote:

> In article <b00735d853.pnyoung@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk>,
> Peter Young <pnyoung@ormail.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 11 Feb 2014 Brian <bbailey@argonet.co.uk> wrote:

>>> Re:

>>> http://500px.com/Valtsu

>>> does not render completely and crashes on 'PORTFOLIO'

>> Confirmed here. Are you going to report it on the bug tracker?

> Ah, well, I guess that was predictable. Bug tracker says I got something
> wrong, I don't know what, asked me to return to the previous page to
> correct whatever, which it didn't.

If it's the same as I saw here, entering the NS version number has to
be done without the #, or the site has a hissy-fit.

> Perhaps someone else would like to have a go?!?

Duly done.

With best wishes,

Peter.

--
Peter Young (zfc W) and family
Prestbury, Cheltenham, Glos. GL52, England
http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk
pnyoung@ormail.co.uk

Re: Dev Cl #1717

In article <b00735d853.pnyoung@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk>,
Peter Young <pnyoung@ormail.co.uk> wrote:
> On 11 Feb 2014 Brian <bbailey@argonet.co.uk> wrote:

> > Re:

> > http://500px.com/Valtsu

> > does not render completely and crashes on 'PORTFOLIO'

> Confirmed here. Are you going to report it on the bug tracker?

Ah, well, I guess that was predictable. Bug tracker says I got something
wrong, I don't know what, asked me to return to the previous page to
correct whatever, which it didn't.

Perhaps someone else would like to have a go?!?

> I have
> the logfile here, so could do that, though today is a busy one. Off to
> Australia tomorrow with my daughter and family!

> With best wishes,

> Peter.

Re: Dev Cl #1717

On 11 Feb 2014 Brian <bbailey@argonet.co.uk> wrote:

> Re:

> http://500px.com/Valtsu

> does not render completely and crashes on 'PORTFOLIO'

Confirmed here. Are you going to report it on the bug tracker? I have
the logfile here, so could do that, though today is a busy one. Off to
Australia tomorrow with my daughter and family!

With best wishes,

Peter.

--
Peter Young (zfc W) and family
Prestbury, Cheltenham, Glos. GL52, England
http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk
pnyoung@ormail.co.uk

Dev Cl #1717

Re:

http://500px.com/Valtsu

does not render completely and crashes on 'PORTFOLIO'

Re: MousAxess

In article <53d800aac8brian.jordan9@btinternet.com>,
Brian Jordan <brian.jordan9@btinternet.com> wrote:
> In article <mpro.n0sy5900onrvk02i1.lists@stevefryatt.org.uk>,
> Steve Fryatt <lists@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:

> [Snip]

> > That looks like some of my code, yes...

> > Can MouseAxess still be legally obtained from anywhere? Google
> > searches all lead to dead websites or people emailing each other
> > hooky copies.

> Well, the help file says " MouseAxess is Freeware, and suitable for
> RISC OS computers only. You may use and copy it freely, as long as the
> application remains unchanged."

> I have copied it to http://www.clubmans.org.uk/netsurf/mousax.zip is
> this wrong?

Sorry, crossed in the post.

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RISC OS 6.20
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Re: MousAxess

In article <mpro.n0sy5900onrvk02i1.lists@stevefryatt.org.uk>,
Steve Fryatt <lists@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:

[Snip]

> That looks like some of my code, yes...

> Can MouseAxess still be legally obtained from anywhere? Google searches
> all lead to dead websites or people emailing each other hooky copies.

Well, the help file says " MouseAxess is Freeware, and suitable for RISC
OS computers only. You may use and copy it freely, as long as the
application remains unchanged."

I have copied it to http://www.clubmans.org.uk/netsurf/mousax.zip is this
wrong?

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Re: MousAxess

On 10 Feb, Steve Fryatt wrote in message
<mpro.n0sy5900onrvk02i1.lists@stevefryatt.org.uk>:

> Can MouseAxess still be legally obtained from anywhere? Google searches
> all lead to dead websites or people emailing each other hooky copies.

Ignore that: I've spotted the copy mentioned in the ticket.

--
Steve Fryatt - Leeds, England Wakefield Acorn & RISC OS Show
Saturday 26 April 2014
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Re: MousAxess

On 7 Feb, Brian Jordan wrote in message
<53d648f824brian.jordan9@btinternet.com>:

> In article <53d64596f0Lists@Torrens.org.uk>,
> Richard Torrens (lists) <Lists@Torrens.org.uk> wrote:
>
> > It's definitely MoussAxess related. I now do RMKill Moussaxess before
> > surfing - if I remember!
>
> I reported this at 13:59. I received a confirmatory email at 14:16 saying
> the issue has been referred to Steve Fryatt. Apparently the problem is:
>
> "Caused by failed assertion in RISC OS mouse handling:
>
> riscos/mouse.c", line 183: ro_mouse_track_start: Assertion failed:
> ro_mouse_poll_end_callback == NULL && ro_mouse_poll_track_callback == NULL
> && ro_mouse_poll_data == NULL"

That looks like some of my code, yes...

Can MouseAxess still be legally obtained from anywhere? Google searches all
lead to dead websites or people emailing each other hooky copies.

--
Steve Fryatt - Leeds, England Wakefield Acorn & RISC OS Show
Saturday 26 April 2014
http://www.stevefryatt.org.uk/ http://www.wakefieldshow.org.uk/

Re: netsurf: branch master updated. release/3.0-1078-g987218e

In article
<OUT-52F6BAB8.MD-1.4.17.chris.young@unsatisfactorysoftware.co.uk>,
Chris Young <chris.young@unsatisfactorysoftware.co.uk> wrote:

> this is the only way to convince a new (blank) tab to have new history.

Should be fixed now.

--

Michael Drake (tlsa) http://www.netsurf-browser.org/

Re: Your bugs in the tracker

On 9 Feb 2014 Richard Porter <ricp@minijem.plus.com> wrote:

> On 9 Feb 2014 Vincent Sanders wrote:

>> If you have a bug like this please, please assist us by replying with
>> requested feedback or adding a note that simply says if the issue is
>> still reproducible. We are trying to get on top of the bugs for the
>> next release bug your assistance is appreciated.

> I have now annotated all of my open bug reports as appropriate. There
> are some that can now be closed.

Me too.

With best wishes,

Peter.

--
Peter Young (zfc W) and family
Prestbury, Cheltenham, Glos. GL52, England
http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk
pnyoung@ormail.co.uk

Re: Your bugs in the tracker

On 9 Feb 2014 Vincent Sanders wrote:

> If you have a bug like this please, please assist us by replying with
> requested feedback or adding a note that simply says if the issue is
> still reproducible. We are trying to get on top of the bugs for the
> next release bug your assistance is appreciated.

I have now annotated all of my open bug reports as appropriate. There
are some that can now be closed.

Richard
--
Richard Porter http://www.minijem.plus.com/
Skype: minijem2 mailto:ricp@minijem.plus.com
I don't want a "user experience" - I just want stuff that works.

Re: Curl threaded resolver

On Sun, 9 Feb 2014 11:15:17 +0000, Vincent Sanders wrote:

> > If somebody can give Jenkins a prod so it rebuilds the ppc-amigaos
> > toolchain that'd be great. :)
>
> And the monkey flipped the switch ;-) should be done in about 50minutes

All working, thanks! I'll send a banana over :)

Chris

Your bugs in the tracker

Can anyone who has an open bugs in our tracker [1] please go and review
your reports.

We have almost 200 outstanding bugs and it is very hard keeping on top
of them. An number of older bugs are awaiting feedback from the
reporter or no longer apply to current versions.

If you have a bug like this please, please assist us by replying with
requested feedback or adding a note that simply says if the issue is
still reproducible. We are trying to get on top of the bugs for the
next release bug your assistance is appreciated.

As previously mentioned all old accounts and bugs have been imported
from sourceforge but if you no longer remember your user name, have
access to your sourceforge email or other issues logging in just
contact us [2] (please no direct email as it will just add work for us
forwarding it to the role address).

[1] http://bugs.netsurf-browser.org/mantis/my_view_page.php (select "Reported by Me" link)
[2] help@netsurf-browser.org

--
Regards Vincent
http://www.kyllikki.org/

Re: Curl threaded resolver

On Sun, Feb 09, 2014 at 11:00:17AM +0000, Chris Young wrote:
> Hi
>
> I've finally managed to get a working patch for libcurl's threaded DNS
> resolver, so I've updated the ppc-amigaos toolchain.
>
> If somebody can give Jenkins a prod so it rebuilds the ppc-amigaos
> toolchain that'd be great. :)

And the monkey flipped the switch ;-) should be done in about 50minutes

>
> Thanks
> Chris
>
>

--
Regards Vincent
http://www.kyllikki.org/

Curl threaded resolver

Hi

I've finally managed to get a working patch for libcurl's threaded DNS
resolver, so I've updated the ppc-amigaos toolchain.

If somebody can give Jenkins a prod so it rebuilds the ppc-amigaos
toolchain that'd be great. :)

Thanks
Chris

Re: netsurf: branch master updated. release/3.0-1078-g987218e

On Sat, 08 Feb 2014 23:48:02 +0000 (GMT), Michael Drake wrote:

> In article
> <OUT-52F6BAB8.MD-1.4.17.chris.young@unsatisfactorysoftware.co.uk>,
> Chris Young <chris.young@unsatisfactorysoftware.co.uk> wrote:
> > Yes, I know. But this is the only way to convince a new (blank) tab
> > to have new history.
>
> Yep, I've just been looking at how to make the core handle it. I'll fix
> tomorrow. It would be handy if you could raise an issue on the tracker
> when you find that kind of thing.

Sure, no problem.

Chris

Re: netsurf: branch master updated. release/3.0-1078-g987218e

In article
<OUT-52F6BAB8.MD-1.4.17.chris.young@unsatisfactorysoftware.co.uk>,
Chris Young <chris.young@unsatisfactorysoftware.co.uk> wrote:
> On Sat, 08 Feb 2014 23:06:56 +0000, Commit Mailer wibbled on for an age:

> > + /* Front end /really/ should not be doing this. */
> > history_destroy(bw->history);
> > - bw->history = history_create();
> > + bw->history = history_create(bw);

> Yes, I know. But this is the only way to convince a new (blank) tab
> to have new history.

Yep, I've just been looking at how to make the core handle it. I'll fix
tomorrow. It would be handy if you could raise an issue on the tracker
when you find that kind of thing.

Cheers,

--

Michael Drake (tlsa) http://www.netsurf-browser.org/

Re: netsurf: branch master updated. release/3.0-1078-g987218e

On Sat, 08 Feb 2014 23:06:56 +0000, Commit Mailer wibbled on for an age:

> + /* Front end /really/ should not be doing this. */
> history_destroy(bw->history);
> - bw->history = history_create();
> + bw->history = history_create(bw);

Yes, I know. But this is the only way to convince a new (blank) tab
to have new history.

I did have a nose around in the core at the time but it didn't look
like an easy thing to add/fix there (although I forget why not).

Chris

Re: Netsurf and the Mantis bug tracker

In article
<OUT-52F61FA4.MD-1.4.17.chris.young@unsatisfactorysoftware.co.uk>,
Chris Young <chris.young@unsatisfactorysoftware.co.uk> wrote:
> On Sat, 08 Feb 2014 11:29:14 +0000 (GMT), Brian Jordan wrote:

[Snip my description of perceived problem]

> I'm not sure that is a bug, but more a feature request. It is easily
> reproduced by searching for something using Google, and then pressing
> back after the search results are displayed. The previous page
> displays, but without the previous search term pre-filled.

So it does! I have been using NetSurf since it was a boy and have never
before come across this feature or lack thereof. I imagine people
submitting bug reports will be using NetSurf is there a case for making
the error trapping a little less harsh particularly as logfiles contain
build information?

Meanwhile I reiterate that it's a good idea to compose and save reports
off-line to avoid this frustration.

--
_____________________________________________________________________

Brian Jordan
Virtual RPC-AdjustSA on Windows 8.1 Pro
RISC OS 6.20
_____________________________________________________________________


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Re: Netsurf and the Mantis bug tracker

On Sat, 08 Feb 2014 11:29:14 +0000 (GMT), Brian Jordan wrote:

> I carefully completed the form on the Mantis site and submitted it,
> Mantis responded with an page indicating that the information I had
> supplied about the CI build was incorrect and that I should use my
> browser's back button to return to the form and correct the error. This I
> did only to be presented with a totally blank page from which to submit
> my report. Fortunately I had had the foresight to compose the report in
> Zap so didn't have the frustration of typing it all again so I completed
> the form and ensured the build information was correct and it was
> successfully submitted.

I'm not sure that is a bug, but more a feature request. It is easily
reproduced by searching for something using Google, and then pressing
back after the search results are displayed. The previous page
displays, but without the previous search term pre-filled.

You would also have seen the same effect had you clicked back after
submitting your bug report.

Chris

Netsurf and the Mantis bug tracker

Yesterday I successfully submitted a bug report, but only at the second
attempt because of what I suspect is a failing in Netsurf.

I carefully completed the form on the Mantis site and submitted it,
Mantis responded with an page indicating that the information I had
supplied about the CI build was incorrect and that I should use my
browser's back button to return to the form and correct the error. This I
did only to be presented with a totally blank page from which to submit
my report. Fortunately I had had the foresight to compose the report in
Zap so didn't have the frustration of typing it all again so I completed
the form and ensured the build information was correct and it was
successfully submitted.

I felt this apparent failing should be added to the bug tracker and, in
the interest of reporting the issue accurately, decided to recreate the
problem. I therefore wrote a report, leaving the CI build information
blank, and submitted it expecting the failure message to be displayed so
that I could perhaps enhance the report with more detail. Nope! The
report was accepted.

I could try repeating the process with variations on the build
information until I got a failure but fear that I might submit a string
of meaningless reports in the process with the result of irritating the
developers and making a total **** of myself.

I'm not sure what to do now other than suggest that, if you are sending a
bug report using NetSurf, you compose it in a text editor nd save it
before you hit the submit report button.

--
______________________________________________________________________

Brian Jordan
>From somewhere in North Hampshire. England. UK.
______________________________________________________________________


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Re: Sockets

In message <ec0962d653.thebears@sarno.freeserve.co.uk>
Geoffrey Baxendale <thebears@sarno.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:

>Yes, seems to work here. Available sockets drop to the low 60s and seem
>to stay around there.

Agree with both points.

>I seem to think that this is subtly different to 1614 which would close
>sockets as you opened a new window, but I could be wrong.
>
>Thanks to JMB for a rapid fix.

And, again, thanks to all in the Netsurf team for all their work.

Dave

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Re: MousAxess

In message <20140207124551.GA5038@parsifal.org.uk> John-Mark
Bell wrote:

>On Fri, Feb 07, 2014 at 03:19:20AM -0800, Dave Higton wrote:
>>
>> Discussion having taken place, all relevant information should go into
>> a report in the issue tracker.
>
>I sense you're missing my point: if the issue is not reported in the
>issue tracker, it will not cross the radar of the developers. Discuss
>what you want, where you want, but the only sure way of ensuring that a
>developer is aware of the issue is to report it on the issue tracker.

Is that not the point that I was agreeing with?

Dave

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Re: Sockets

In message <mpro.n0m939003uaga05ub.pittdj@pittdj.co.uk>
David Pitt <pittdj@pittdj.co.uk> wrote:

> Dave Higton, on 7 Feb, wrote:
>
> > On Thu, 06 Feb 2014 23:38:10 GMT Geoffrey Baxendale wrote:
> >
> > > In message <c42a61d553.DaveMeUK@my.inbox.com>
> > > Dave Higton <dave@davehigton.me.uk> wrote:
> > >
> > > > In message <mpro.n0iifp008cgrh041t.pittdj@pittdj.co.uk>
> > >> David Pitt <pittdj@pittdj.co.uk> wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
> > > > > I have resurrected a Socket Counter application, !SockCtr, which
> > > > > dates back to the time when Oregano2 managed to do a similar trick.
> > > > > It is a frontend to David Ruck's SocketCount.
> > >>>
> > > > > http://pittdj.co.uk/software/index.htm
> [snip]
> > > As far as I can tell, 1614 is OK and 1635 not. Don't have any builds
> > > between those here. When I have more time I will try and narrow it down
> > > further. (All Non JS)
> >
> > Geoff, can you use SockCtr and see if 1614 reclaims sockets under the same
> > circumstances as 1356? This is worth adding to the bug report.
>
> Or try #1699, bug 2064 is now marked as resolved.
>
> The socket count has not gone below 60 here so far, having started at 90 on
> the Raspberry Pi.
>
Yes, seems to work here. Available sockets drop to the low 60s and seem
to stay around there.

I seem to think that this is subtly different to 1614 which would close
sockets as you opened a new window, but I could be wrong.

Thanks to JMB for a rapid fix.

TTFN
--
Geoff.
Using Acorn StrongARM Kinetic RiscPC.
Oxymoron of the day: "Government Organisation"

Re: Sockets

In message <1AE3FC690F8.00000729dave@davehigton.me.uk>
Dave Higton <dave@davehigton.me.uk> wrote:

> On Thu, 06 Feb 2014 23:38:10 GMT Geoffrey Baxendale wrote:
>
> > In message <c42a61d553.DaveMeUK@my.inbox.com>
> > Dave Higton <dave@davehigton.me.uk> wrote:
> >
> >> In message <mpro.n0iifp008cgrh041t.pittdj@pittdj.co.uk>
> >> David Pitt <pittdj@pittdj.co.uk> wrote:
> >>
> >> >Geoffrey Baxendale, on 4 Feb, wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Is it just me, or is Netsurf's sockets system awry. After a modest
> >>>> browsing session Internet access freezes up due, I think,
> >>>> to sockets being used up. Qitting Netsurf restores order. It seems to
> >>>> have started about a couple of weeks ago. Not sure of the exact time.
> >>>>
> >>>> Risc Os 6.2 NS R1681. (JSoff)
> >>>
> >> >The same thing happens here with #1694 on a Raspberry Pi, OS5.21
> >> (31Jan14).
> >>>
> >> >I have resurrected a Socket Counter application, !SockCtr, which dates
> >> back
> >> >to the time when Oregano2 managed to do a similar trick. It is a
> >> frontend to
> >> >David Ruck's SocketCount.
> >>>
> >> >http://pittdj.co.uk/software/index.htm
> >>
> >> Thank you for that useful app, David. It confirms Netsurf's problem
> >> nicely. The number of sockets starts off for me at 90, and gradually
> >> collapses. When it reaches 0, NS can't resolve the link. The number
> >> rarely increases at all.
> >>
> >> But the clincher is: quit NS, and the number instantly goes back up
> >> to 90.
> >>
> >> I'm confirming it with build 1694 and 1615. There's a big gap in
> >> the versions I've kept; the latest before 1615 is 1356, which behaves
> >> very differently. Curiously, the sockets are recovered not when a
> >> page closes, but when a new one is opened.
> >>
> >> Dave
> >>
> > As far as I can tell, 1614 is OK and 1635 not. Don't have any builds
> > between those here. When I have more time I will try and narrow it down
> > further. (All Non JS)
>
> Geoff, can you use SockCtr and see if 1614 reclaims sockets under the
> same circumstances as 1356? This is worth adding to the bug report.
>
> Dave
>
Don't suppose there is much point now JMB has fixed whatever was wrong!
Thanks!

I had been using SockCtr3. Thanks to whoever posted the link to
that. There is another prog !SockMgr by Dave Thomas which lists data on
all the open sockets.
http://www.tristone.co.uk/davespace/software/dpt.html

TTFN
--
Geoff.
Using Acorn StrongARM Kinetic RiscPC.
Oxymoron of the day: "Humane Warfare"

Re: Bad archive

On Fri, Feb 07, 2014 at 05:49:57PM -0000, Dave Lawton wrote:
> On Tue, 4 February, 2014 9:04 am, Vincent Sanders wrote:
> >
> Snip
> >
> > The CI system is no longer generating jsoff builds at all for any
> > target that supports a build with javascript.
> >
> > The ability to disable javascript as an option remains.
> >
> > This was a decision made at the developer workshop (it is on the
> > whiteboard)
> > http://vincentsanders.blogspot.co.uk/2014/01/netsurf-developer-workshop-redux.html
>
> Hi Vincent,
> I may be missing the blindingly obvious, but I can't
> find any mention of the above, nor anything relating
> to the detail of work done at the developer workshop
> on the link you have kindly provided.
>
> Could you please provide explicit directions ?

All the text on the page Vince posted mentions much about what we did at
the workshop. It doesn't include direct mention of us no longer
building JavaScriptless builds, but then that's a minor detail; we've
not supported automatic downloaders etc since we provided RiscPkg files.

B.

Re: Bad archive

On Tue, 4 February, 2014 9:04 am, Vincent Sanders wrote:
>
Snip
>
> The CI system is no longer generating jsoff builds at all for any
> target that supports a build with javascript.
>
> The ability to disable javascript as an option remains.
>
> This was a decision made at the developer workshop (it is on the
> whiteboard)
> http://vincentsanders.blogspot.co.uk/2014/01/netsurf-developer-workshop-redux.html
>

Hi Vincent,
I may be missing the blindingly obvious, but I can't
find any mention of the above, nor anything relating
to the detail of work done at the developer workshop
on the link you have kindly provided.

Could you please provide explicit directions ?

--
Regards,
Dave Lawton
HTML emails are just a security risk, and nobody needs that.

Re: Paypal bank transfer

On 20 Jan 2014 as I do recall,
Harriet Bazley wrote:

> I can't seem to withdraw money to my bank account from Paypal using
> Netsurf any more (it just gives a page saying there may have been an
> error) -- is it a temporary glitch or have they introduced a JavaScripty
> dependency since I last withdrew money in October?
>

I'm happy to notice that this feature is now working again as of version
1699. The 'Send money' feature also seems to work, although I didn't
go all the way and actually dispatch the funds: at any rate Netsurf got
past the screen it got stuck on last time. :-)

--
Harriet Bazley == Loyaulte me lie ==

Do not underestimate the power of the Force.

Re: MousAxess

On Fri, 7 Feb 2014 15:21:21 +0000 Vincent Sanders wrote:

> As mentioned in previous mails to the list about the new bug system,
> yes almost everything got imported from the old system, including
> their accounts etc.
>
> however sourceforge "sanitised" the data they made available to us so
> the import is a bit incomplete in places.
>
> Imported users will need to use the "forgotten password" interface to
> re-verify their account. Once verified they can login and change the
> email address to something more suitable.
>
> If (as in your case) they have lost everything, please contact
> help@netsurf-browser.org with a request to change details.
>
> On this occasion I have reset your account

Thank you, Vincent, for speeding up the process.

Richard: it's easy to log in to Mantis when you have an account.
From there I'm sure it's easy to report an issue. (I'm not going
to report a fictitious issue for test purposes, though.)

Dave

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Re: MousAxess

> Yes. And I can't log in either (FF, Windows - at work). I can't remember
> my credentials.
>
> I haven't logged in since the bug tracker changed to Mantis. I've also
> changed email address some months ago; I can't remember whether I
> updated them in the previous bug tracker. So I don't know whether my
> credentials have been ported; and even if they have; I can't remember
> them :-(

As mentioned in previous mails to the list about the new bug system,
yes almost everything got imported from the old system, including
their accounts etc.

however sourceforge "sanitised" the data they made available to us so
the import is a bit incomplete in places.

Imported users will need to use the "forgotten password" interface to
re-verify their account. Once verified they can login and change the
email address to something more suitable.

If (as in your case) they have lost everything, please contact
help@netsurf-browser.org with a request to change details.

On this occasion I have reset your account (davehigton) email to
dave@davehigton.me.uk. you now need to retrieve your password and
login.


--
Regards Vincent
http://www.kyllikki.org/

Re: MousAxess

On Fri, Feb 07, 2014 at 02:19:05PM +0000, Richard Torrens (lists) wrote:
> In article <20140207125751.GB5038@parsifal.org.uk>,
> John-Mark Bell <jmb@netsurf-browser.org> wrote:
>
> > You log in, click the "Report Issue" link, fill in the form, and click
> > "Submit Report".
>
> That page, at the bottom has a link: bug reporting interface.
>
> That takes me to http://bugs.netsurf-browser.org/mantis/my_view_page.php
>
> which has no "Report Issue" link...
>
> I suspect the key is the "my_view_page" bit. It probably only works for
> logged-in members....

As I explained in the previous email, you must log in to the bug
tracker to report issues.


John-Mark.

Re: MousAxess

On Fri, Feb 07, 2014 at 03:09:51PM +0000, Daniel Silverstone wrote:
>
> Unfortunately the old tracker was hard for the developers to use and stopped
> being accessible from NetSurf entirely thanks to SourceForge fecking up.

All of this was covered in Vince's email announcing the new bug tracker:
http://vlists.pepperfish.net/pipermail/netsurf-users-netsurf-browser.org/2013-December/012100.html

Please read this if you haven't already done so!


John-Mark.

Re: MousAxess

On Fri, Feb 07, 2014 at 06:50:56 -0800, Dave Higton wrote:
> Yes. And I can't log in either (FF, Windows - at work). I can't remember
> my credentials.
>
> I haven't logged in since the bug tracker changed to Mantis. I've also
> changed email address some months ago; I can't remember whether I
> updated them in the previous bug tracker. So I don't know whether my
> credentials have been ported; and even if they have; I can't remember
> them :-(

If you've not logged in to Mantis ever, then you don't have any credentials.

> The previous bug tracker was easy enough to use. Some of the names it
> used were not intuitive; that's the worst I could say about it, i.e. I
> regard it as OK. I'll have to see what the new one looks like from
> RISC OS NS.

Unfortunately the old tracker was hard for the developers to use and stopped
being accessible from NetSurf entirely thanks to SourceForge fecking up.

D.

--
Daniel Silverstone http://www.netsurf-browser.org/
PGP mail accepted and encouraged. Key Id: 3CCE BABE 206C 3B69

Re: MousAxess

In article <53d64596f0Lists@Torrens.org.uk>,
Richard Torrens (lists) <Lists@Torrens.org.uk> wrote:
> In article <53d63f0cd7brian.jordan9@btinternet.com>,
> Brian Jordan <brian.jordan9@btinternet.com> wrote:

[Snip]

> > If you haven't yet done so, I'll post yours along with one of my own
> > which is a log of I crash I provoked when scrolling with the menu
> > button.

> Thanks.

> It's definitely MoussAxess related. I now do RMKill Moussaxess before
> surfing - if I remember!

I reported this at 13:59. I received a confirmatory email at 14:16 saying
the issue has been referred to Steve Fryatt. Apparently the problem is:

"Caused by failed assertion in RISC OS mouse handling:

riscos/mouse.c", line 183: ro_mouse_track_start: Assertion failed:
ro_mouse_poll_end_callback == NULL && ro_mouse_poll_track_callback ==
NULL && ro_mouse_poll_data == NULL"

--
_____________________________________________________________________

Brian Jordan
Virtual RPC-AdjustSA on Windows 8.1 Pro
RISC OS 6.20
_____________________________________________________________________


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Re: MousAxess

On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 14:19:05 +0000 (GMT) Richard Torrens wrote:

> That page, at the bottom has a link: bug reporting interface.
>
> That takes me to http://bugs.netsurf-browser.org/mantis/my_view_page.php
>
> which has no "Report Issue" link...
>
> I suspect the key is the "my_view_page" bit. It probably only works for
> logged-in members....

Yes. And I can't log in either (FF, Windows - at work). I can't remember
my credentials.

I haven't logged in since the bug tracker changed to Mantis. I've also
changed email address some months ago; I can't remember whether I
updated them in the previous bug tracker. So I don't know whether my
credentials have been ported; and even if they have; I can't remember
them :-(

I'll try from home tonight.

The previous bug tracker was easy enough to use. Some of the names it
used were not intuitive; that's the worst I could say about it, i.e. I
regard it as OK. I'll have to see what the new one looks like from
RISC OS NS.

Dave

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