Wimpslot is no help, a new-comer reported problems, so I downloaded the package and find that
gcc -v
errors with
Internal error: abort on data transfer at &000085A4
I didn't upgrade unixlib or !SharedLibs stuff from 4.1.2
Is that necessary?
Ron M.
_______________________________________________
GCCSDK mailing list gcc@gccsdk.riscos.info
Bugzilla: http://www.riscos.info/bugzilla/index.cgi
List Info: http://www.riscos.info/mailman/listinfo/gcc
Main Page: http://www.riscos.info/index.php/GCCSDK
Thursday, 30 April 2015
Re: Hot List
In message <54bc7ed240bbailey@argonet.co.uk>
Brian <bbailey@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> would it be practicable to sponsor support of the the RISC OS side of
> NetSurf under the ROOL sponsorship scheme? I should be glad to contribute
> if such a scheme were to be implemented.
Financial incentives don't appear to have made any difference so far.
Dave
____________________________________________________________
FREE ONLINE PHOTOSHARING - Share your photos online with your friends and family!
Visit http://www.inbox.com/photosharing to find out more!
Brian <bbailey@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> would it be practicable to sponsor support of the the RISC OS side of
> NetSurf under the ROOL sponsorship scheme? I should be glad to contribute
> if such a scheme were to be implemented.
Financial incentives don't appear to have made any difference so far.
Dave
____________________________________________________________
FREE ONLINE PHOTOSHARING - Share your photos online with your friends and family!
Visit http://www.inbox.com/photosharing to find out more!
Re: Hot List
On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 04:33:28PM +0100, Brian wrote:
> In article <54b9784cbfLists@Torrens.org.uk>, Richard Torrens (lists)
> <Lists@Torrens.org.uk> wrote:
> > Could you change the saving of the hot list?
>
> > At present it only saves when NS is quit - a pain if you have just made
> > changes and NS quits1
>
> > It either needs a Menu Item: Save Hot List or it should save
> > automatically when changed.
>
> Reading this thread with some dismay. However, would it be practicable to
> sponsor support of the the RISC OS side of NetSurf under the ROOL
> sponsorship scheme? I should be glad to contribute if such a scheme were
> to be implemented.
I don't think offering a small amount of cash is going to make much
difference if there is no interested, skilled, or bored enough developer
to do the work.
B.
> In article <54b9784cbfLists@Torrens.org.uk>, Richard Torrens (lists)
> <Lists@Torrens.org.uk> wrote:
> > Could you change the saving of the hot list?
>
> > At present it only saves when NS is quit - a pain if you have just made
> > changes and NS quits1
>
> > It either needs a Menu Item: Save Hot List or it should save
> > automatically when changed.
>
> Reading this thread with some dismay. However, would it be practicable to
> sponsor support of the the RISC OS side of NetSurf under the ROOL
> sponsorship scheme? I should be glad to contribute if such a scheme were
> to be implemented.
I don't think offering a small amount of cash is going to make much
difference if there is no interested, skilled, or bored enough developer
to do the work.
B.
Re: Hot List
In article <54b9784cbfLists@Torrens.org.uk>, Richard Torrens (lists)
<Lists@Torrens.org.uk> wrote:
> Could you change the saving of the hot list?
> At present it only saves when NS is quit - a pain if you have just made
> changes and NS quits1
> It either needs a Menu Item: Save Hot List or it should save
> automatically when changed.
Reading this thread with some dismay. However, would it be practicable to
sponsor support of the the RISC OS side of NetSurf under the ROOL
sponsorship scheme? I should be glad to contribute if such a scheme were
to be implemented.
<Lists@Torrens.org.uk> wrote:
> Could you change the saving of the hot list?
> At present it only saves when NS is quit - a pain if you have just made
> changes and NS quits1
> It either needs a Menu Item: Save Hot List or it should save
> automatically when changed.
Reading this thread with some dismay. However, would it be practicable to
sponsor support of the the RISC OS side of NetSurf under the ROOL
sponsorship scheme? I should be glad to contribute if such a scheme were
to be implemented.
Re: Hot List
John Rickman Iyonix, on 30 Apr, wrote:
> Dave Higton wrote
>
> > My uncle trained many years ago in Adult Education. One thing he said
> > has always stuck with me: that adults possess no less ability to learn
> > than do children.
>
> Your uncle was right, but he forgot to mention how quickly adults can
> forget what they have learnt.
>
> I have been trying to learn Spanish for years but forget words at the same
> rate as I learn them. :-(
¿Qué es lo bueno de eso, NetSurf no está escrito en español.
I have a similar issue with C, but this thread has been enough to get me to
restart my C learning curve, and very enjoyable it has been too.
--
David Pitt
> Dave Higton wrote
>
> > My uncle trained many years ago in Adult Education. One thing he said
> > has always stuck with me: that adults possess no less ability to learn
> > than do children.
>
> Your uncle was right, but he forgot to mention how quickly adults can
> forget what they have learnt.
>
> I have been trying to learn Spanish for years but forget words at the same
> rate as I learn them. :-(
¿Qué es lo bueno de eso, NetSurf no está escrito en español.
I have a similar issue with C, but this thread has been enough to get me to
restart my C learning curve, and very enjoyable it has been too.
--
David Pitt
Re: Hot List
Dave Higton wrote
> My uncle trained many years ago in Adult Education. One thing he said
> has always stuck with me: that adults possess no less ability to learn
> than do children.
Your uncle was right, but he forgot to mention how quickly adults can
forget what they have learnt.
I have been trying to learn Spanish for years but forget words at the
same rate as I learn them. :-(
--
John Rickman - http://rickman.orpheusweb.co.uk/lynx
For ye have the poor always with you; but me ye have not always.
> My uncle trained many years ago in Adult Education. One thing he said
> has always stuck with me: that adults possess no less ability to learn
> than do children.
Your uncle was right, but he forgot to mention how quickly adults can
forget what they have learnt.
I have been trying to learn Spanish for years but forget words at the
same rate as I learn them. :-(
--
John Rickman - http://rickman.orpheusweb.co.uk/lynx
For ye have the poor always with you; but me ye have not always.
Re: Hot List
On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 10:27:06AM +0100, John Rickman Iyonix wrote:
> someone? wrote:
>
> > It takes less than an hour to install the OS and get a NetSurf build
> > going.
>
> Is it feasible to do this using an RasPi? (Pi 2 Raspian)
Yes. However you will not be able to use our pre-built cross-compiling
toolchain, which is built for AMD64 Linux. Which means you'll have to
build your own. And on an ARM that's going to take a while.
Sadly our build process is optimised to use the fastest cheapest
hardware available; we've never considered that anybody would be
developing from anything else.
B.
> someone? wrote:
>
> > It takes less than an hour to install the OS and get a NetSurf build
> > going.
>
> Is it feasible to do this using an RasPi? (Pi 2 Raspian)
Yes. However you will not be able to use our pre-built cross-compiling
toolchain, which is built for AMD64 Linux. Which means you'll have to
build your own. And on an ARM that's going to take a while.
Sadly our build process is optimised to use the fastest cheapest
hardware available; we've never considered that anybody would be
developing from anything else.
B.
Re: Hot List
On Thu, 30 Apr 2015 09:02:42 +0100 Stuart Winsor wrote:
> I just wish I was able to work on NetSurf because I think it is the one
> piece of software that everybody in RO land uses and is the most
> beneficial to the community as a whole. It is also the achilles-heel that
> deters new adopters and causes people to move to other OSs.
>
> Unfortunately, a little 8085 assembler for an OU course in
> microprocessors
> and a few simple programs in Basic, back in the early days of the model
> B,
> form the limits of my programming skills.
My uncle trained many years ago in Adult Education. One thing he said
has always stuck with me: that adults possess no less ability to learn
than do children.
I've become aware over the years since then that the big difference
between children and adults is their attitude. No-one tells children
that they can't learn, and so they go through all their childhood
years learning at an astonishing rate. Then something happens, and
they persuade themselves (or each other) that learning is no longer
possible.
Perhaps one force is the fear of the embarrassment of failure. In my
career, I'm used to trial and error: usually almost as much error as
trial, bearing in mind the number of trials that have to be gone
through on the way to a single success! Don't be embarrassed, just
learn what to do next time.
I'm in my mid sixties, and learning new things is something I enjoy.
To anyone who thinks they can't learn something new, I would commend
a change of attitude. Be positive. Think in terms of what you might
be able to do - if only you try.
Try, and you might succeed. Don't try, and you certainly won't
succeed.
Dave
____________________________________________________________
FREE 3D EARTH SCREENSAVER - Watch the Earth right on your desktop!
Check it out at http://www.inbox.com/earth
> I just wish I was able to work on NetSurf because I think it is the one
> piece of software that everybody in RO land uses and is the most
> beneficial to the community as a whole. It is also the achilles-heel that
> deters new adopters and causes people to move to other OSs.
>
> Unfortunately, a little 8085 assembler for an OU course in
> microprocessors
> and a few simple programs in Basic, back in the early days of the model
> B,
> form the limits of my programming skills.
My uncle trained many years ago in Adult Education. One thing he said
has always stuck with me: that adults possess no less ability to learn
than do children.
I've become aware over the years since then that the big difference
between children and adults is their attitude. No-one tells children
that they can't learn, and so they go through all their childhood
years learning at an astonishing rate. Then something happens, and
they persuade themselves (or each other) that learning is no longer
possible.
Perhaps one force is the fear of the embarrassment of failure. In my
career, I'm used to trial and error: usually almost as much error as
trial, bearing in mind the number of trials that have to be gone
through on the way to a single success! Don't be embarrassed, just
learn what to do next time.
I'm in my mid sixties, and learning new things is something I enjoy.
To anyone who thinks they can't learn something new, I would commend
a change of attitude. Be positive. Think in terms of what you might
be able to do - if only you try.
Try, and you might succeed. Don't try, and you certainly won't
succeed.
Dave
____________________________________________________________
FREE 3D EARTH SCREENSAVER - Watch the Earth right on your desktop!
Check it out at http://www.inbox.com/earth
Re: Hot List
someone? wrote:
> It takes less than an hour to install the OS and get a NetSurf build
> going.
Is it feasible to do this using an RasPi? (Pi 2 Raspian)
john
--
John Rickman - http://rickman.orpheusweb.co.uk/lynx
"If you are doing what you want you are not wasting your time, but you
may be wasting someone else's." jr
> It takes less than an hour to install the OS and get a NetSurf build
> going.
Is it feasible to do this using an RasPi? (Pi 2 Raspian)
john
--
John Rickman - http://rickman.orpheusweb.co.uk/lynx
"If you are doing what you want you are not wasting your time, but you
may be wasting someone else's." jr
Re: Hot List
In article <mpro.nnl86r015p1x201yb.lists@stevefryatt.org.uk>,
Steve Fryatt <lists@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:
> What you're asking for isn't hugely difficult, and would be a nice
> introductory project for someone wanting to get involved with the RISC OS
> front-end. The offers of guidance that I made to Glen a couple of months
> back still stand for anyone interested in picking it up.
I just wish I was able to work on NetSurf because I think it is the one
piece of software that everybody in RO land uses and is the most
beneficial to the community as a whole. It is also the achilles-heel that
deters new adopters and causes people to move to other OSs.
Unfortunately, a little 8085 assembler for an OU course in microprocessors
and a few simple programs in Basic, back in the early days of the model B,
form the limits of my programming skills.
--
Stuart Winsor
Tools With A Mission
sending tools across the world
http://www.twam.co.uk/
Steve Fryatt <lists@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:
> What you're asking for isn't hugely difficult, and would be a nice
> introductory project for someone wanting to get involved with the RISC OS
> front-end. The offers of guidance that I made to Glen a couple of months
> back still stand for anyone interested in picking it up.
I just wish I was able to work on NetSurf because I think it is the one
piece of software that everybody in RO land uses and is the most
beneficial to the community as a whole. It is also the achilles-heel that
deters new adopters and causes people to move to other OSs.
Unfortunately, a little 8085 assembler for an OU course in microprocessors
and a few simple programs in Basic, back in the early days of the model B,
form the limits of my programming skills.
--
Stuart Winsor
Tools With A Mission
sending tools across the world
http://www.twam.co.uk/
Wednesday, 29 April 2015
Re: Hot List
On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 10:36:35PM +0100, Nick Roberts wrote:
> > I spent some time writing a HOWTO document outlining how to set up a
> > cross-compiling environment using a virtual machine (so it can be done
> > on Windows machines as well as on Linux). Sadly few people seem to have
> > taken advantage of it.
>
> Could you point me at it? I may (emphasize _may_, not _will_) be able
> to take on some new development work in a few weeks.
>
> I've hesitated to volunteer for NetSurf in the past because Real Life
> has been getting in the way of my hobby developments for the last few
> years, but that may be going to change.
If you already have a Linux system to hand, then this documents
everything you need to know:
http://git.netsurf-browser.org/netsurf.git/tree/Docs/QUICK-START
B.
> > I spent some time writing a HOWTO document outlining how to set up a
> > cross-compiling environment using a virtual machine (so it can be done
> > on Windows machines as well as on Linux). Sadly few people seem to have
> > taken advantage of it.
>
> Could you point me at it? I may (emphasize _may_, not _will_) be able
> to take on some new development work in a few weeks.
>
> I've hesitated to volunteer for NetSurf in the past because Real Life
> has been getting in the way of my hobby developments for the last few
> years, but that may be going to change.
If you already have a Linux system to hand, then this documents
everything you need to know:
http://git.netsurf-browser.org/netsurf.git/tree/Docs/QUICK-START
B.
Re: Hot List
On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 09:02:11PM +0100, Andrew Pinder wrote:
> In message <54bbf0d883chris@chris-johnson.org.uk>
> on 29 Apr 2015 cj <chris@chris-johnson.org.uk> wrote:
>
> > One question I have mused over for some time is what is the fraction
> > of NetSurf users that are RISC OS users and what fraction use other
> > platforms.
>
> Data on the number of downloads per month for each platform would give
> some kind of answer to that question.
A very poor answer: Linux and the BSDs for example often ship their own
copies: we don't provide binaries for those platforms on our website.
> BTW, I was at the Wakefield Show and was expecting to donate to the
> NetSurf project there as in previous years. Then I realised that none
> of the developers were there :-(
Sadly it was not economically viable. I seem to recall that last year
we only just managed to break even (given stall prices and travel
expenses), as well as the fact that we had basically nothing new to show
for RISC OS users beyond core improvements, all of which everybody who
uses NetSurf on RISC OS already knew about via this list and release
announcements.
B.
> In message <54bbf0d883chris@chris-johnson.org.uk>
> on 29 Apr 2015 cj <chris@chris-johnson.org.uk> wrote:
>
> > One question I have mused over for some time is what is the fraction
> > of NetSurf users that are RISC OS users and what fraction use other
> > platforms.
>
> Data on the number of downloads per month for each platform would give
> some kind of answer to that question.
A very poor answer: Linux and the BSDs for example often ship their own
copies: we don't provide binaries for those platforms on our website.
> BTW, I was at the Wakefield Show and was expecting to donate to the
> NetSurf project there as in previous years. Then I realised that none
> of the developers were there :-(
Sadly it was not economically viable. I seem to recall that last year
we only just managed to break even (given stall prices and travel
expenses), as well as the fact that we had basically nothing new to show
for RISC OS users beyond core improvements, all of which everybody who
uses NetSurf on RISC OS already knew about via this list and release
announcements.
B.
Re: Hot List
On 29 Apr, Harriet Bazley wrote in message
<b2c0dbbb54.harriet@blueyonder.co.uk>:
> On 27 Apr 2015 as I do recall,
> Daniel Silverstone wrote:
>
> > surely you can work together to either produce a patch, or to persuade
> > someone who might already know how to code in C to produce a patch.
>
> I'm not sure it's very realistic to expect a random C coder out of the
> kindness of his heart to download the source to a program of the
> complexity of a web browser, work out how one specific piece of it
> currently functions, and alter that part without breaking anything else...
> but I suppose that's how open source software is intended to work...
...but you'd expect someone like myself to do it for you? That's not meant
in a nasty way, BTW -- I'm just filling in the unspoken bit of your
argument.
In the end, we're all just "random C coders", and when I came on board to
fix up the treeview code I downloaded the source, worked out how large
chunks of it functioned and altered the bits that needed altering. I seem
to recall that I also broke some fairly significant bits along the way.
What you're asking for isn't hugely difficult, and would be a nice
introductory project for someone wanting to get involved with the RISC OS
front-end. The offers of guidance that I made to Glen a couple of months
back still stand for anyone interested in picking it up.
--
Steve Fryatt - Leeds, England
http://www.stevefryatt.org.uk/
<b2c0dbbb54.harriet@blueyonder.co.uk>:
> On 27 Apr 2015 as I do recall,
> Daniel Silverstone wrote:
>
> > surely you can work together to either produce a patch, or to persuade
> > someone who might already know how to code in C to produce a patch.
>
> I'm not sure it's very realistic to expect a random C coder out of the
> kindness of his heart to download the source to a program of the
> complexity of a web browser, work out how one specific piece of it
> currently functions, and alter that part without breaking anything else...
> but I suppose that's how open source software is intended to work...
...but you'd expect someone like myself to do it for you? That's not meant
in a nasty way, BTW -- I'm just filling in the unspoken bit of your
argument.
In the end, we're all just "random C coders", and when I came on board to
fix up the treeview code I downloaded the source, worked out how large
chunks of it functioned and altered the bits that needed altering. I seem
to recall that I also broke some fairly significant bits along the way.
What you're asking for isn't hugely difficult, and would be a nice
introductory project for someone wanting to get involved with the RISC OS
front-end. The offers of guidance that I made to Glen a couple of months
back still stand for anyone interested in picking it up.
--
Steve Fryatt - Leeds, England
http://www.stevefryatt.org.uk/
Re: Hot List
In message <20150429135240.GL11872@platypus.pepperfish.net>
Rob Kendrick <rjek@netsurf-browser.org> wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 02:42:43PM +0100, cj wrote:
> > In article <54bbe96175Lists@Torrens.org.uk>,
> > Richard Torrens (lists) <Lists@Torrens.org.uk> wrote:
> > > write a request to comp.sys.acorn.programmer to see if you can
> > > interest anyone there in joining the team. There may well be
> > > someone who is capable, could be interested, but does not subscribe
> > > to this list.
> >
> > There has been talk in various forums about the problem.
> >
> > The first thing that gets stressed is that in order to compile
> > NetSurf (essential in order to test even the smallest change) you
> > need to be using GCC and the autobuilder under linux. That is an
> > immediate and very major obstacle to several people who have
> > expressed some interest.
>
> I spent some time writing a HOWTO document outlining how to set up a
> cross-compiling environment using a virtual machine (so it can be done
> on Windows machines as well as on Linux). Sadly few people seem to have
> taken advantage of it.
Could you point me at it? I may (emphasize _may_, not _will_) be able
to take on some new development work in a few weeks.
I've hesitated to volunteer for NetSurf in the past because Real Life
has been getting in the way of my hobby developments for the last few
years, but that may be going to change.
> It takes less than an hour to install the OS and get a NetSurf build
> going.
--
Nick Roberts tigger @ orpheusinternet.co.uk
Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice that which
can be adequately explained by stupidity.
Rob Kendrick <rjek@netsurf-browser.org> wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 02:42:43PM +0100, cj wrote:
> > In article <54bbe96175Lists@Torrens.org.uk>,
> > Richard Torrens (lists) <Lists@Torrens.org.uk> wrote:
> > > write a request to comp.sys.acorn.programmer to see if you can
> > > interest anyone there in joining the team. There may well be
> > > someone who is capable, could be interested, but does not subscribe
> > > to this list.
> >
> > There has been talk in various forums about the problem.
> >
> > The first thing that gets stressed is that in order to compile
> > NetSurf (essential in order to test even the smallest change) you
> > need to be using GCC and the autobuilder under linux. That is an
> > immediate and very major obstacle to several people who have
> > expressed some interest.
>
> I spent some time writing a HOWTO document outlining how to set up a
> cross-compiling environment using a virtual machine (so it can be done
> on Windows machines as well as on Linux). Sadly few people seem to have
> taken advantage of it.
Could you point me at it? I may (emphasize _may_, not _will_) be able
to take on some new development work in a few weeks.
I've hesitated to volunteer for NetSurf in the past because Real Life
has been getting in the way of my hobby developments for the last few
years, but that may be going to change.
> It takes less than an hour to install the OS and get a NetSurf build
> going.
--
Nick Roberts tigger @ orpheusinternet.co.uk
Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice that which
can be adequately explained by stupidity.
Re: Hot List
On 29 Apr, Rob Kendrick wrote in message
<20150429135240.GL11872@platypus.pepperfish.net>:
> On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 02:42:43PM +0100, cj wrote:
> > In article <54bbe96175Lists@Torrens.org.uk>,
> > Richard Torrens (lists) <Lists@Torrens.org.uk> wrote:
> > > write a request to comp.sys.acorn.programmer to see if you can
> > > interest anyone there in joining the team. There may well be someone
> > > who is capable, could be interested, but does not subscribe to this
> > > list.
> >
> > There has been talk in various forums about the problem.
It was discussed in a *LOT* of depth on the ROOL forums not all that long
ago; that discussion spread out on to the NetSurf Dev mailing list.
> > The first thing that gets stressed is that in order to compile NetSurf
> > (essential in order to test even the smallest change) you need to be
> > using GCC and the autobuilder under linux. That is an immediate and very
> > major obstacle to several people who have expressed some interest.
>
> I spent some time writing a HOWTO document outlining how to set up a
> cross-compiling environment using a virtual machine (so it can be done on
> Windows machines as well as on Linux). Sadly few people seem to have
> taken advantage of it.
Indeed. Two people were interested, I gave up a few evenings when I should
have been doing other things to document some bits and pieces as an
introduction to the RISC OS front-end before they lost that interest, a
couple of patches came in... and then it went quiet.
--
Steve Fryatt - Leeds, England
http://www.stevefryatt.org.uk/
<20150429135240.GL11872@platypus.pepperfish.net>:
> On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 02:42:43PM +0100, cj wrote:
> > In article <54bbe96175Lists@Torrens.org.uk>,
> > Richard Torrens (lists) <Lists@Torrens.org.uk> wrote:
> > > write a request to comp.sys.acorn.programmer to see if you can
> > > interest anyone there in joining the team. There may well be someone
> > > who is capable, could be interested, but does not subscribe to this
> > > list.
> >
> > There has been talk in various forums about the problem.
It was discussed in a *LOT* of depth on the ROOL forums not all that long
ago; that discussion spread out on to the NetSurf Dev mailing list.
> > The first thing that gets stressed is that in order to compile NetSurf
> > (essential in order to test even the smallest change) you need to be
> > using GCC and the autobuilder under linux. That is an immediate and very
> > major obstacle to several people who have expressed some interest.
>
> I spent some time writing a HOWTO document outlining how to set up a
> cross-compiling environment using a virtual machine (so it can be done on
> Windows machines as well as on Linux). Sadly few people seem to have
> taken advantage of it.
Indeed. Two people were interested, I gave up a few evenings when I should
have been doing other things to document some bits and pieces as an
introduction to the RISC OS front-end before they lost that interest, a
couple of patches came in... and then it went quiet.
--
Steve Fryatt - Leeds, England
http://www.stevefryatt.org.uk/
Re: Hot List
In message <54bbf0d883chris@chris-johnson.org.uk>
on 29 Apr 2015 cj <chris@chris-johnson.org.uk> wrote:
> One question I have mused over for some time is what is the fraction
> of NetSurf users that are RISC OS users and what fraction use other
> platforms.
Data on the number of downloads per month for each platform would give
some kind of answer to that question.
BTW, I was at the Wakefield Show and was expecting to donate to the
NetSurf project there as in previous years. Then I realised that none
of the developers were there :-(
Regards
Andrew
--
Andrew Pinder
on 29 Apr 2015 cj <chris@chris-johnson.org.uk> wrote:
> One question I have mused over for some time is what is the fraction
> of NetSurf users that are RISC OS users and what fraction use other
> platforms.
Data on the number of downloads per month for each platform would give
some kind of answer to that question.
BTW, I was at the Wakefield Show and was expecting to donate to the
NetSurf project there as in previous years. Then I realised that none
of the developers were there :-(
Regards
Andrew
--
Andrew Pinder
Re: Hot List
On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 02:42:43PM +0100, cj wrote:
> In article <54bbe96175Lists@Torrens.org.uk>,
> Richard Torrens (lists) <Lists@Torrens.org.uk> wrote:
> > write a request to comp.sys.acorn.programmer to see if you can
> > interest anyone there in joining the team. There may well be
> > someone who is capable, could be interested, but does not subscribe
> > to this list.
>
> There has been talk in various forums about the problem.
>
> The first thing that gets stressed is that in order to compile
> NetSurf (essential in order to test even the smallest change) you
> need to be using GCC and the autobuilder under linux. That is an
> immediate and very major obstacle to several people who have
> expressed some interest.
I spent some time writing a HOWTO document outlining how to set up a
cross-compiling environment using a virtual machine (so it can be done
on Windows machines as well as on Linux). Sadly few people seem to have
taken advantage of it.
It takes less than an hour to install the OS and get a NetSurf build
going.
B.
> In article <54bbe96175Lists@Torrens.org.uk>,
> Richard Torrens (lists) <Lists@Torrens.org.uk> wrote:
> > write a request to comp.sys.acorn.programmer to see if you can
> > interest anyone there in joining the team. There may well be
> > someone who is capable, could be interested, but does not subscribe
> > to this list.
>
> There has been talk in various forums about the problem.
>
> The first thing that gets stressed is that in order to compile
> NetSurf (essential in order to test even the smallest change) you
> need to be using GCC and the autobuilder under linux. That is an
> immediate and very major obstacle to several people who have
> expressed some interest.
I spent some time writing a HOWTO document outlining how to set up a
cross-compiling environment using a virtual machine (so it can be done
on Windows machines as well as on Linux). Sadly few people seem to have
taken advantage of it.
It takes less than an hour to install the OS and get a NetSurf build
going.
B.
Re: Hot List
In article <54bbe96175Lists@Torrens.org.uk>,
Richard Torrens (lists) <Lists@Torrens.org.uk> wrote:
> write a request to comp.sys.acorn.programmer to see if you can
> interest anyone there in joining the team. There may well be
> someone who is capable, could be interested, but does not subscribe
> to this list.
There has been talk in various forums about the problem.
The first thing that gets stressed is that in order to compile
NetSurf (essential in order to test even the smallest change) you
need to be using GCC and the autobuilder under linux. That is an
immediate and very major obstacle to several people who have
expressed some interest.
One question I have mused over for some time is what is the fraction
of NetSurf users that are RISC OS users and what fraction use other
platforms.
--
Chris Johnson
Richard Torrens (lists) <Lists@Torrens.org.uk> wrote:
> write a request to comp.sys.acorn.programmer to see if you can
> interest anyone there in joining the team. There may well be
> someone who is capable, could be interested, but does not subscribe
> to this list.
There has been talk in various forums about the problem.
The first thing that gets stressed is that in order to compile
NetSurf (essential in order to test even the smallest change) you
need to be using GCC and the autobuilder under linux. That is an
immediate and very major obstacle to several people who have
expressed some interest.
One question I have mused over for some time is what is the fraction
of NetSurf users that are RISC OS users and what fraction use other
platforms.
--
Chris Johnson
Re: Hot List
In article <20150429101112.GY23045@somnambulist.local>,
Daniel Silverstone <dsilvers@netsurf-browser.org> wrote:
> I'm not sure it's very realistic to expect project maintainers to
> continue to support a platform which none of them run and which has no
> active maintainer to help -- where despite there clearly being a number
> of engineers who still run the project and who have the requisite
> skills, noone can be found to provide what little support would be
> needed to keep the project on-track. But I suppose that's how platform
> support atrophies and is eventually removed.
You have a very valid point.
RISC OS needs a good browser: its probable that if it had one, more people
would use it.
But it looks like most of us who use NS on RO are users, not programmers.
I have done a little programming, long ago. C I have no understanding of
at all. I have looked a C source code as one of our motor controllers was
programmed, and the source was in C. It left me colder than cold...
Maybe you, Daniel, or one of the other programmers should write a request
to comp.sys.acorn.programmer to see if you can interest anyone there in
joining the team. There may well be someone who is capable, could be
interested, but does not subscribe to this list.
I'd do it myself, but am in no position to know how easy it will be, or
what sort of things are involved.
--
Richard Torrens.
http://www.Torrens.org.uk for genealogy, natural history, wild food, walks, cats
and more!
Daniel Silverstone <dsilvers@netsurf-browser.org> wrote:
> I'm not sure it's very realistic to expect project maintainers to
> continue to support a platform which none of them run and which has no
> active maintainer to help -- where despite there clearly being a number
> of engineers who still run the project and who have the requisite
> skills, noone can be found to provide what little support would be
> needed to keep the project on-track. But I suppose that's how platform
> support atrophies and is eventually removed.
You have a very valid point.
RISC OS needs a good browser: its probable that if it had one, more people
would use it.
But it looks like most of us who use NS on RO are users, not programmers.
I have done a little programming, long ago. C I have no understanding of
at all. I have looked a C source code as one of our motor controllers was
programmed, and the source was in C. It left me colder than cold...
Maybe you, Daniel, or one of the other programmers should write a request
to comp.sys.acorn.programmer to see if you can interest anyone there in
joining the team. There may well be someone who is capable, could be
interested, but does not subscribe to this list.
I'd do it myself, but am in no position to know how easy it will be, or
what sort of things are involved.
--
Richard Torrens.
http://www.Torrens.org.uk for genealogy, natural history, wild food, walks, cats
and more!
Re: Cookie dates
On 27 Apr 2015 as I do recall,
Gavin Wraith wrote:
> In message <392690ba54.harriet@blueyonder.co.uk>
> Harriet Bazley <lists@orange.wingsandbeaks.org.uk> wrote:
>
> > I've been told by a webmaster that Netsurf doesn't log into his site
> > properly because the timestamps on the cookies that it is creating are set
> > wrongly (that is, they are set to expire in 1970). Is there any way of
> > manipulating the cookie data manually to check this theory?
>
> I think so. The file <Choices$Write>.WWW.NetSurf.Cookies appears to be
> a TSV (tab separated variable) file. The first 8 lines are comments,
> starting with a hash (#). The 8-th comment line shows what the fields in each
> line mean. For example the 8-th is date of expiry, the 9-th the date last used.
> It should be straightforward to manipulate this data, e.g. with a
> StrongED script. I would be happy to provide you with one if you say what it
> is you would like it to do. I think NetSurf handles cookies internally,
> loading the file on startup and saving them out on shutdown.
Yes, it looks as if they get written back on quitting. Which makes sense,
but renders my proposed experiment rather moot, unfortunately, since it
wouldn't of course alter the data in memory actually being used.
But I think this may be a red herring in any case. I managed to get the
current batch of cookies for this site to reset their dates to the current
era as an unexpected side-effect of using the 'Remember me' option (which I
take it saves cookies intended to be reused between sessions). After
quitting and reloading Netsurf is now displaying and presumably sending out
the reloaded data with correct(?) expiry dates of June 28th instead of
January 1970, but the site still isn't accepting the log-in properly --
apparently not the cause of the issue after all.
--
Harriet Bazley == Loyaulte me lie ==
Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent.
Gavin Wraith wrote:
> In message <392690ba54.harriet@blueyonder.co.uk>
> Harriet Bazley <lists@orange.wingsandbeaks.org.uk> wrote:
>
> > I've been told by a webmaster that Netsurf doesn't log into his site
> > properly because the timestamps on the cookies that it is creating are set
> > wrongly (that is, they are set to expire in 1970). Is there any way of
> > manipulating the cookie data manually to check this theory?
>
> I think so. The file <Choices$Write>.WWW.NetSurf.Cookies appears to be
> a TSV (tab separated variable) file. The first 8 lines are comments,
> starting with a hash (#). The 8-th comment line shows what the fields in each
> line mean. For example the 8-th is date of expiry, the 9-th the date last used.
> It should be straightforward to manipulate this data, e.g. with a
> StrongED script. I would be happy to provide you with one if you say what it
> is you would like it to do. I think NetSurf handles cookies internally,
> loading the file on startup and saving them out on shutdown.
Yes, it looks as if they get written back on quitting. Which makes sense,
but renders my proposed experiment rather moot, unfortunately, since it
wouldn't of course alter the data in memory actually being used.
But I think this may be a red herring in any case. I managed to get the
current batch of cookies for this site to reset their dates to the current
era as an unexpected side-effect of using the 'Remember me' option (which I
take it saves cookies intended to be reused between sessions). After
quitting and reloading Netsurf is now displaying and presumably sending out
the reloaded data with correct(?) expiry dates of June 28th instead of
January 1970, but the site still isn't accepting the log-in properly --
apparently not the cause of the issue after all.
--
Harriet Bazley == Loyaulte me lie ==
Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent.
Re: Hot List
On 29 Apr 2015 as I do recall,
Daniel Silverstone wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 10:52:19 +0100, Harriet Bazley wrote:
> > > surely you can work together to either produce a patch, or to persuade
> > > someone who might already know how to code in C to produce a patch.
> >
> > I'm not sure it's very realistic to expect a random C coder out of the
> > kindness of his heart to download the source to a program of the complexity
> > of a web browser, work out how one specific piece of it currently functions,
> > and alter that part without breaking anything else... but I suppose that's
> > how open source software is intended to work...
>
> Oddly enough that's exactly how it's intended to work -- it's certainly how
> pretty much every contributor to NetSurf got started.
>
> You don't think we all sat around one day and said "Hey, let's write a web
> browser" do you?
>
> To turn your argument back around --
>
I think you may be misunderstanding me.
I'm no C coder, and I quail from the thought of obliging someone else to
familiarise himself with a completely new project for my benefit.
--
Harriet Bazley == Loyaulte me lie ==
Please all, and you will please none.
Daniel Silverstone wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 10:52:19 +0100, Harriet Bazley wrote:
> > > surely you can work together to either produce a patch, or to persuade
> > > someone who might already know how to code in C to produce a patch.
> >
> > I'm not sure it's very realistic to expect a random C coder out of the
> > kindness of his heart to download the source to a program of the complexity
> > of a web browser, work out how one specific piece of it currently functions,
> > and alter that part without breaking anything else... but I suppose that's
> > how open source software is intended to work...
>
> Oddly enough that's exactly how it's intended to work -- it's certainly how
> pretty much every contributor to NetSurf got started.
>
> You don't think we all sat around one day and said "Hey, let's write a web
> browser" do you?
>
> To turn your argument back around --
>
I think you may be misunderstanding me.
I'm no C coder, and I quail from the thought of obliging someone else to
familiarise himself with a completely new project for my benefit.
--
Harriet Bazley == Loyaulte me lie ==
Please all, and you will please none.
Re: Hot List
On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 10:52:19 +0100, Harriet Bazley wrote:
> > surely you can work together to either produce a patch, or to persuade
> > someone who might already know how to code in C to produce a patch.
>
> I'm not sure it's very realistic to expect a random C coder out of the
> kindness of his heart to download the source to a program of the complexity
> of a web browser, work out how one specific piece of it currently functions,
> and alter that part without breaking anything else... but I suppose that's
> how open source software is intended to work...
Oddly enough that's exactly how it's intended to work -- it's certainly how
pretty much every contributor to NetSurf got started.
You don't think we all sat around one day and said "Hey, let's write a web
browser" do you?
To turn your argument back around --
I'm not sure it's very realistic to expect project maintainers to continue to
support a platform which none of them run and which has no active maintainer to
help -- where despite there clearly being a number of engineers who still run
the project and who have the requisite skills, noone can be found to provide
what little support would be needed to keep the project on-track. But I suppose
that's how platform support atrophies and is eventually removed.
D.
--
Daniel Silverstone http://www.netsurf-browser.org/
PGP mail accepted and encouraged. Key Id: 3CCE BABE 206C 3B69
> > surely you can work together to either produce a patch, or to persuade
> > someone who might already know how to code in C to produce a patch.
>
> I'm not sure it's very realistic to expect a random C coder out of the
> kindness of his heart to download the source to a program of the complexity
> of a web browser, work out how one specific piece of it currently functions,
> and alter that part without breaking anything else... but I suppose that's
> how open source software is intended to work...
Oddly enough that's exactly how it's intended to work -- it's certainly how
pretty much every contributor to NetSurf got started.
You don't think we all sat around one day and said "Hey, let's write a web
browser" do you?
To turn your argument back around --
I'm not sure it's very realistic to expect project maintainers to continue to
support a platform which none of them run and which has no active maintainer to
help -- where despite there clearly being a number of engineers who still run
the project and who have the requisite skills, noone can be found to provide
what little support would be needed to keep the project on-track. But I suppose
that's how platform support atrophies and is eventually removed.
D.
--
Daniel Silverstone http://www.netsurf-browser.org/
PGP mail accepted and encouraged. Key Id: 3CCE BABE 206C 3B69
Re: Hot List
On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 10:52:19AM +0100, Harriet Bazley wrote:
> I'm not sure it's very realistic to expect a random C coder out of the
> kindness of his heart to download the source to a program of the complexity
> of a web browser, work out how one specific piece of it currently functions,
> and alter that part without breaking anything else... but I suppose that's
> how open source software is intended to work...
NetSurf is well compartmentalised. I suspect anybody with any
experience of RISC OS C programming would find the task pretty simple.
It's not as if you need to touch or look at the CSS selection code or
box layout code.
B.
> I'm not sure it's very realistic to expect a random C coder out of the
> kindness of his heart to download the source to a program of the complexity
> of a web browser, work out how one specific piece of it currently functions,
> and alter that part without breaking anything else... but I suppose that's
> how open source software is intended to work...
NetSurf is well compartmentalised. I suspect anybody with any
experience of RISC OS C programming would find the task pretty simple.
It's not as if you need to touch or look at the CSS selection code or
box layout code.
B.
Re: Hot List
On 27 Apr 2015 as I do recall,
Daniel Silverstone wrote:
[snip]
> surely you can work together to either produce a patch, or to persuade
> someone who might already know how to code in C to produce a patch.
I'm not sure it's very realistic to expect a random C coder out of the
kindness of his heart to download the source to a program of the complexity
of a web browser, work out how one specific piece of it currently functions,
and alter that part without breaking anything else... but I suppose that's
how open source software is intended to work...
--
Harriet Bazley == Loyaulte me lie ==
The only rose without thorns is friendship.
Daniel Silverstone wrote:
[snip]
> surely you can work together to either produce a patch, or to persuade
> someone who might already know how to code in C to produce a patch.
I'm not sure it's very realistic to expect a random C coder out of the
kindness of his heart to download the source to a program of the complexity
of a web browser, work out how one specific piece of it currently functions,
and alter that part without breaking anything else... but I suppose that's
how open source software is intended to work...
--
Harriet Bazley == Loyaulte me lie ==
The only rose without thorns is friendship.
Monday, 27 April 2015
Cookies
Should anybody want it, I have a RiscLua program (26 lines)
to display NetSurf cookie files in a more readable form.
--
Gavin Wraith (gavin@wra1th.plus.com)
Home page: http://www.wra1th.plus.com/
to display NetSurf cookie files in a more readable form.
--
Gavin Wraith (gavin@wra1th.plus.com)
Home page: http://www.wra1th.plus.com/
Re: Cookie dates
In message <392690ba54.harriet@blueyonder.co.uk>
Harriet Bazley <lists@orange.wingsandbeaks.org.uk> wrote:
> I've been told by a webmaster that Netsurf doesn't log into his site
> properly because the timestamps on the cookies that it is creating are set
> wrongly (that is, they are set to expire in 1970). Is there any way of
> manipulating the cookie data manually to check this theory?
I think so. The file <Choices$Write>.WWW.NetSurf.Cookies appears to be
a TSV (tab separated variable) file. The first 8 lines are comments,
starting with a hash (#). The 8-th comment line shows what the fields in each
line mean. For example the 8-th is date of expiry, the 9-th the date last used.
It should be straightforward to manipulate this data, e.g. with a
StrongED script. I would be happy to provide you with one if you say what it
is you would like it to do. I think NetSurf handles cookies internally,
loading the file on startup and saving them out on shutdown. But no doubt
those who know the inward workings of NetSurf will correct me here
if I am wrong.
Myself, I delete all cookies when I shut the computer down.
--
Gavin Wraith (gavin@wra1th.plus.com)
Home page: http://www.wra1th.plus.com/
Harriet Bazley <lists@orange.wingsandbeaks.org.uk> wrote:
> I've been told by a webmaster that Netsurf doesn't log into his site
> properly because the timestamps on the cookies that it is creating are set
> wrongly (that is, they are set to expire in 1970). Is there any way of
> manipulating the cookie data manually to check this theory?
I think so. The file <Choices$Write>.WWW.NetSurf.Cookies appears to be
a TSV (tab separated variable) file. The first 8 lines are comments,
starting with a hash (#). The 8-th comment line shows what the fields in each
line mean. For example the 8-th is date of expiry, the 9-th the date last used.
It should be straightforward to manipulate this data, e.g. with a
StrongED script. I would be happy to provide you with one if you say what it
is you would like it to do. I think NetSurf handles cookies internally,
loading the file on startup and saving them out on shutdown. But no doubt
those who know the inward workings of NetSurf will correct me here
if I am wrong.
Myself, I delete all cookies when I shut the computer down.
--
Gavin Wraith (gavin@wra1th.plus.com)
Home page: http://www.wra1th.plus.com/
Re: Hot List
On Sun, Apr 26, 2015 at 22:25:07 +0100, Harriet Bazley wrote:
> > It either needs a Menu Item: Save Hot List or it should save automatically
> > when changed.
> Seconded.
Well, with two of you wanting it, surely you can work together to either
produce a patch, or to persuade someone who might already know how to code in C
to produce a patch. None of the core developers use RISC OS day-to-day and
Steve Fryatt has been super-busy and unable to contribute properly for some
time.
D.
--
Daniel Silverstone http://www.netsurf-browser.org/
PGP mail accepted and encouraged. Key Id: 3CCE BABE 206C 3B69
> > It either needs a Menu Item: Save Hot List or it should save automatically
> > when changed.
> Seconded.
Well, with two of you wanting it, surely you can work together to either
produce a patch, or to persuade someone who might already know how to code in C
to produce a patch. None of the core developers use RISC OS day-to-day and
Steve Fryatt has been super-busy and unable to contribute properly for some
time.
D.
--
Daniel Silverstone http://www.netsurf-browser.org/
PGP mail accepted and encouraged. Key Id: 3CCE BABE 206C 3B69
Sunday, 26 April 2015
Cookie dates
I've been told by a webmaster that Netsurf doesn't log into his site
properly because the timestamps on the cookies that it is creating are set
wrongly (that is, they are set to expire in 1970). Is there any way of
manipulating the cookie data manually to check this theory?
e.g. I have one cookie displaying as "Expires Sun May 03 20:03:56 2015/Last
used Sun Apr 26 22:21:34 2015" and another one from the same site/session
displaying as "Expires Thu Jan 01 00:59:59 1970/Last used Sun Apr 26
22:21:34 2015" -- these were presumably both sent by the site at the same
time!
--
Harriet Bazley == Loyaulte me lie ==
Cleanliness is next to impossible.
properly because the timestamps on the cookies that it is creating are set
wrongly (that is, they are set to expire in 1970). Is there any way of
manipulating the cookie data manually to check this theory?
e.g. I have one cookie displaying as "Expires Sun May 03 20:03:56 2015/Last
used Sun Apr 26 22:21:34 2015" and another one from the same site/session
displaying as "Expires Thu Jan 01 00:59:59 1970/Last used Sun Apr 26
22:21:34 2015" -- these were presumably both sent by the site at the same
time!
--
Harriet Bazley == Loyaulte me lie ==
Cleanliness is next to impossible.
Re: Hot List
On 24 Apr 2015 as I do recall,
Richard Torrens (lists) wrote:
> Could you change the saving of the hot list?
>
> At present it only saves when NS is quit - a pain if you have just made
> changes and NS quits1
(i.e. crashes!)
>
> It either needs a Menu Item: Save Hot List or it should save automatically
> when changed.
>
Seconded.
--
Harriet Bazley == Loyaulte me lie ==
You cannot kill time without injuring eternity.
Richard Torrens (lists) wrote:
> Could you change the saving of the hot list?
>
> At present it only saves when NS is quit - a pain if you have just made
> changes and NS quits1
(i.e. crashes!)
>
> It either needs a Menu Item: Save Hot List or it should save automatically
> when changed.
>
Seconded.
--
Harriet Bazley == Loyaulte me lie ==
You cannot kill time without injuring eternity.
Friday, 24 April 2015
Hot List
Could you change the saving of the hot list?
At present it only saves when NS is quit - a pain if you have just made
changes and NS quits1
It either needs a Menu Item: Save Hot List or it should save automatically
when changed.
--
Richard Torrens.
http://www.Torrens.org.uk for genealogy, natural history, wild food, walks, cats
and more!
At present it only saves when NS is quit - a pain if you have just made
changes and NS quits1
It either needs a Menu Item: Save Hot List or it should save automatically
when changed.
--
Richard Torrens.
http://www.Torrens.org.uk for genealogy, natural history, wild food, walks, cats
and more!
[Rpcemu] Full-screen mode - LINUX version
I've managed to correct the full-screen problem in RPCEMU (Linux
version) which caused the mouse pointer to behave abnormally. The mouse
pointer also behaves abnormally if "Follows host mouse" is deselected.
To fix the problem:
Edit rpcemu.h
Change line 70 from:
#define mousehack (config.mousehackon && !fullscreen)
to:
#define mousehack (config.mousehackon)
This seems to work OK in full-screen mode now (but do NOT deselect
"follows host mouse" whether in full-screen mode or not!)
I don't see any easy way of fixing the (different) problem in the
Windows version.
--
Dr David Gee
Gateshead
_______________________________________________
Rpcemu mailing list
Rpcemu@riscos.info
http://www.riscos.info/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/rpcemu
version) which caused the mouse pointer to behave abnormally. The mouse
pointer also behaves abnormally if "Follows host mouse" is deselected.
To fix the problem:
Edit rpcemu.h
Change line 70 from:
#define mousehack (config.mousehackon && !fullscreen)
to:
#define mousehack (config.mousehackon)
This seems to work OK in full-screen mode now (but do NOT deselect
"follows host mouse" whether in full-screen mode or not!)
I don't see any easy way of fixing the (different) problem in the
Windows version.
--
Dr David Gee
Gateshead
_______________________________________________
Rpcemu mailing list
Rpcemu@riscos.info
http://www.riscos.info/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/rpcemu
Wednesday, 22 April 2015
Re: [Rpcemu] Full screen problems
In article <5537CECB.6090107@blueyonder.co.uk>,
David Gee <david_m_gee@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> I'm having difficulty running RPCEmu 0.8.12 in full screen mode, both on
> Linux and Windows, although the symptoms are different.
> On Windows (8.1), RPCEmu nearly always crashes on attempting to select
> full screen mode--the chances of a successful outcome are highest when
> the *average* MIPS value shown in the title bar is highest. On the rare
> occasions when I *do* achieve this, RPCEmu works correctly.
> On Linux (Lubuntu 14.04 LTS), there is no problem in selecting full
> screen mode. However, the mouse cursor 'sticks' to the top left hand
> corner and no longer behaves correctly. This is with the mouse pointer
> in 'follows host pointer' mode as if this is no selected the mouse does
> not work correctly on Linux in any case--even in windowed mode.
> If I then return to windowed mode normal operation is not restored as
> the mouse pointer disappears.
From here, RPCEmu 0.8.12 on Win 7 Pro 64bit... The "Fullscreen Mode" as
from the toolbar menu has never worked without continually FU the thing.
In RO:
I created a screen mode in "Makemodes" that is close to the full screen
size of my monitor minus the Task bar.
I selected that as the monitor def in Configuration-display.
In windows:
I have a RPCEmu shortcut on the Taskbar, and in the Properties-Shortcut
Tab, I've set it to Run: Maximised.
When I click on the Shortcut in the Taskbar, RPCEmu is run, then auto
maximised.
That way there's no FU.
Dave
--
Dave Triffid
_______________________________________________
Rpcemu mailing list
Rpcemu@riscos.info
http://www.riscos.info/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/rpcemu
David Gee <david_m_gee@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> I'm having difficulty running RPCEmu 0.8.12 in full screen mode, both on
> Linux and Windows, although the symptoms are different.
> On Windows (8.1), RPCEmu nearly always crashes on attempting to select
> full screen mode--the chances of a successful outcome are highest when
> the *average* MIPS value shown in the title bar is highest. On the rare
> occasions when I *do* achieve this, RPCEmu works correctly.
> On Linux (Lubuntu 14.04 LTS), there is no problem in selecting full
> screen mode. However, the mouse cursor 'sticks' to the top left hand
> corner and no longer behaves correctly. This is with the mouse pointer
> in 'follows host pointer' mode as if this is no selected the mouse does
> not work correctly on Linux in any case--even in windowed mode.
> If I then return to windowed mode normal operation is not restored as
> the mouse pointer disappears.
From here, RPCEmu 0.8.12 on Win 7 Pro 64bit... The "Fullscreen Mode" as
from the toolbar menu has never worked without continually FU the thing.
In RO:
I created a screen mode in "Makemodes" that is close to the full screen
size of my monitor minus the Task bar.
I selected that as the monitor def in Configuration-display.
In windows:
I have a RPCEmu shortcut on the Taskbar, and in the Properties-Shortcut
Tab, I've set it to Run: Maximised.
When I click on the Shortcut in the Taskbar, RPCEmu is run, then auto
maximised.
That way there's no FU.
Dave
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[Rpcemu] Full screen problems
I'm having difficulty running RPCEmu 0.8.12 in full screen mode, both on
Linux and Windows, although the symptoms are different.
On Windows (8.1), RPCEmu nearly always crashes on attempting to select
full screen mode--the chances of a successful outcome are highest when
the *average* MIPS value shown in the title bar is highest. On the rare
occasions when I *do* achieve this, RPCEmu works correctly.
On Linux (Lubuntu 14.04 LTS), there is no problem in selecting full
screen mode. However, the mouse cursor 'sticks' to the top left hand
corner and no longer behaves correctly. This is with the mouse pointer
in 'follows host pointer' mode as if this is no selected the mouse does
not work correctly on Linux in any case--even in windowed mode.
If I then return to windowed mode normal operation is not restored as
the mouse pointer disappears.
--
David Gee
_______________________________________________
Rpcemu mailing list
Rpcemu@riscos.info
http://www.riscos.info/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/rpcemu
Linux and Windows, although the symptoms are different.
On Windows (8.1), RPCEmu nearly always crashes on attempting to select
full screen mode--the chances of a successful outcome are highest when
the *average* MIPS value shown in the title bar is highest. On the rare
occasions when I *do* achieve this, RPCEmu works correctly.
On Linux (Lubuntu 14.04 LTS), there is no problem in selecting full
screen mode. However, the mouse cursor 'sticks' to the top left hand
corner and no longer behaves correctly. This is with the mouse pointer
in 'follows host pointer' mode as if this is no selected the mouse does
not work correctly on Linux in any case--even in windowed mode.
If I then return to windowed mode normal operation is not restored as
the mouse pointer disappears.
--
David Gee
_______________________________________________
Rpcemu mailing list
Rpcemu@riscos.info
http://www.riscos.info/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/rpcemu
Sunday, 19 April 2015
[gccsdk] [Bug 259] DigitalRenderer module is reset on program exit
http://www.riscos.info/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=259
Chris Gransden <chrisg@care4free.net> changed:
What |Removed |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
AssignedTo|peter@chocky.org |John.Tytgat@aaug.net
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[gccsdk] [Bug 259] New: DigitalRenderer module is reset on program exit
http://www.riscos.info/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=259
Summary: DigitalRenderer module is reset on program exit
Product: GCC/GCCSDK
Version: other
Platform: Other
OS/Version: RISC OS
Status: NEW
Severity: normal
Priority: P1
Component: Unixlib and SharedCLibrary
AssignedTo: peter@chocky.org
ReportedBy: chrisg@care4free.net
Estimated Hours: 0.0
Any program built with UnixLib resets DigitalRender on exit regardless of
whether that program uses DigitalRenderer. If another program is running that
is using sound the sound stops. The program has to be restarted to continue
with sound.
Examples of non sound using programs are !NetSurf, !PDF and !Wget.
See gcc4/recipe/files/gcc/libunixlib for the location of the reset,
in the _exit() function is the following,
/* De-register with DigitalRenderer in case of an exception */
__dsp_exit();
I'm not sure if it's possible to identify if a program is using
DigitalRenderer.
A possible workaround would be to add a build time flag so the reset is skipped
for that program.
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Summary: DigitalRenderer module is reset on program exit
Product: GCC/GCCSDK
Version: other
Platform: Other
OS/Version: RISC OS
Status: NEW
Severity: normal
Priority: P1
Component: Unixlib and SharedCLibrary
AssignedTo: peter@chocky.org
ReportedBy: chrisg@care4free.net
Estimated Hours: 0.0
Any program built with UnixLib resets DigitalRender on exit regardless of
whether that program uses DigitalRenderer. If another program is running that
is using sound the sound stops. The program has to be restarted to continue
with sound.
Examples of non sound using programs are !NetSurf, !PDF and !Wget.
See gcc4/recipe/files/gcc/libunixlib for the location of the reset,
in the _exit() function is the following,
/* De-register with DigitalRenderer in case of an exception */
__dsp_exit();
I'm not sure if it's possible to identify if a program is using
DigitalRenderer.
A possible workaround would be to add a build time flag so the reset is skipped
for that program.
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Saturday, 18 April 2015
[gccsdk] [Bug 258] gggggg
http://www.riscos.info/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=258
prataplachibtech <prataplachibtech@gmail.com> changed:
What |Removed |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
CC| |prataplachibtech@gmail.com
Platform|Other |All
OS/Version|RISC OS |All
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prataplachibtech <prataplachibtech@gmail.com> changed:
What |Removed |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
CC| |prataplachibtech@gmail.com
Platform|Other |All
OS/Version|RISC OS |All
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[gccsdk] [Bug 258] New: gggggg
http://www.riscos.info/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=258
Summary: gggggg
Product: Firefox
Version: unspecified
Platform: Other
OS/Version: RISC OS
Status: NEW
Severity: feature request
Priority: P1
Component: Feature requests
AssignedTo: peter@chocky.org
ReportedBy: prataplachibtech@gmail.com
Estimated Hours: 0.0
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Summary: gggggg
Product: Firefox
Version: unspecified
Platform: Other
OS/Version: RISC OS
Status: NEW
Severity: feature request
Priority: P1
Component: Feature requests
AssignedTo: peter@chocky.org
ReportedBy: prataplachibtech@gmail.com
Estimated Hours: 0.0
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Wednesday, 15 April 2015
Re: Unable to report a bug.
On 15 Apr 2015 David Pitt <pittdj@pittdj.co.uk> wrote:
> Peter Young, on 15 Apr, wrote:
>> On 15 Apr 2015 David Pitt <pittdj@pittdj.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> Peter Young, on 15 Apr, wrote:
>>
>>>> On 15 Apr 2015 Brian Jordan <brian.jordan9@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In article <f71659b454.pnyoung@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk>,
>>>>> Peter Young <pnyoung@ormail.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> On 14 Apr 2015 Peter Young <pnyoung@ormail.co.uk> wrote:
> [snip]
>>>>>>> I tried to access http://www.remapglos.org.uk/ and get "Warning
>>>>>>> from NetSurf: OK". The site works properly on Chrome in Windows.
>>>>>>> I have the relevant logfile.
> [snip]
>>> Site loads OK here with JavaScript disabled with #2721
>> [snip] However, what is the meaning of the unhelpful error message "OK"?
> I would not read too much into the "OK", this is all work in progress.
> The log gives a bit more detail :-
> (53.230000) content/fetchers/curl.c fetch_curl_setup 285: fetch 0x65fc1680,
> url 'http://www.remapglos.org.uk/scripts/AC_RunActiveContent.js'
> (53.230000) render/html_script.c exec_src_script 445: 1 fetches active
> (53.230000) render/html.c html_begin_conversion 1087: Parsing failed
> (53.230000) riscos/gui.c warn_user 2084: OK (null)
> That would indicate that there has been a JavaScript failure.
Thanks.
Best wishes,
Peter.
--
Peter Young (zfc Re) and family
Prestbury, Cheltenham, Glos. GL52, England
http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk
pnyoung@ormail.co.uk
> Peter Young, on 15 Apr, wrote:
>> On 15 Apr 2015 David Pitt <pittdj@pittdj.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> Peter Young, on 15 Apr, wrote:
>>
>>>> On 15 Apr 2015 Brian Jordan <brian.jordan9@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In article <f71659b454.pnyoung@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk>,
>>>>> Peter Young <pnyoung@ormail.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> On 14 Apr 2015 Peter Young <pnyoung@ormail.co.uk> wrote:
> [snip]
>>>>>>> I tried to access http://www.remapglos.org.uk/ and get "Warning
>>>>>>> from NetSurf: OK". The site works properly on Chrome in Windows.
>>>>>>> I have the relevant logfile.
> [snip]
>>> Site loads OK here with JavaScript disabled with #2721
>> [snip] However, what is the meaning of the unhelpful error message "OK"?
> I would not read too much into the "OK", this is all work in progress.
> The log gives a bit more detail :-
> (53.230000) content/fetchers/curl.c fetch_curl_setup 285: fetch 0x65fc1680,
> url 'http://www.remapglos.org.uk/scripts/AC_RunActiveContent.js'
> (53.230000) render/html_script.c exec_src_script 445: 1 fetches active
> (53.230000) render/html.c html_begin_conversion 1087: Parsing failed
> (53.230000) riscos/gui.c warn_user 2084: OK (null)
> That would indicate that there has been a JavaScript failure.
Thanks.
Best wishes,
Peter.
--
Peter Young (zfc Re) and family
Prestbury, Cheltenham, Glos. GL52, England
http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk
pnyoung@ormail.co.uk
Re: Unable to report a bug.
In article <85ea9bb454.pnyoung@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk>,
Peter Young <pnyoung@ormail.co.uk> wrote:
> On 15 Apr 2015 Brian Jordan <brian.jordan9@btinternet.com> wrote:
> > In article <f71659b454.pnyoung@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk>,
> > Peter Young <pnyoung@ormail.co.uk> wrote:
> >> On 14 Apr 2015 Peter Young <pnyoung@ormail.co.uk> wrote:
> >>> I have tried to report this on the bug tracker, but can't. It didn't
> >>> accept my username and password, I have tried twice to change the
> >>> password, and still can't get in. Perhaps someone who can access the
> >>> tracker might kindly like to report it.
> >>> ARMini, RISC OS 5.18, NS #2720
> >>> I tried to access http://www.remapglos.org.uk/ and get "Warning from
> >>> NetSurf: OK". The site works properly on Chrome in Windows. I have the
> >>> relevant logfile.
> >> I have now been able to report this using Windows Chrome, but still
> >> can't do it with RISC OS NetSurf. Why, I wonder?
> > If you want to enhance your report Netsurf is being tripped up by the
> > following meta statement within the <head></head> of the document.
> > <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content=
> > "text/html; charset=us-ascii" />
> > An interesting page in many ways, running it through HTML Tidy here
> > throws up a lot of warnings and concludes "Info: Document content looks
> > like HTML Proprietary"
> Thanks, Brian, and I've added a note, even though I don't understand
> what you say!
> The NetSurf site seems to have had a hiccup this morning, in that I
> could neither log in nor download the latest version.
Indeed, it did. All I could achieve was a timeout.
> All seems to be
> well now, and I can log in to the bug tracker using NetSurf once more.
> Best wishes,
> Peter.
Peter Young <pnyoung@ormail.co.uk> wrote:
> On 15 Apr 2015 Brian Jordan <brian.jordan9@btinternet.com> wrote:
> > In article <f71659b454.pnyoung@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk>,
> > Peter Young <pnyoung@ormail.co.uk> wrote:
> >> On 14 Apr 2015 Peter Young <pnyoung@ormail.co.uk> wrote:
> >>> I have tried to report this on the bug tracker, but can't. It didn't
> >>> accept my username and password, I have tried twice to change the
> >>> password, and still can't get in. Perhaps someone who can access the
> >>> tracker might kindly like to report it.
> >>> ARMini, RISC OS 5.18, NS #2720
> >>> I tried to access http://www.remapglos.org.uk/ and get "Warning from
> >>> NetSurf: OK". The site works properly on Chrome in Windows. I have the
> >>> relevant logfile.
> >> I have now been able to report this using Windows Chrome, but still
> >> can't do it with RISC OS NetSurf. Why, I wonder?
> > If you want to enhance your report Netsurf is being tripped up by the
> > following meta statement within the <head></head> of the document.
> > <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content=
> > "text/html; charset=us-ascii" />
> > An interesting page in many ways, running it through HTML Tidy here
> > throws up a lot of warnings and concludes "Info: Document content looks
> > like HTML Proprietary"
> Thanks, Brian, and I've added a note, even though I don't understand
> what you say!
> The NetSurf site seems to have had a hiccup this morning, in that I
> could neither log in nor download the latest version.
Indeed, it did. All I could achieve was a timeout.
> All seems to be
> well now, and I can log in to the bug tracker using NetSurf once more.
> Best wishes,
> Peter.
Re: Unable to report a bug.
Peter Young, on 15 Apr, wrote:
> On 15 Apr 2015 David Pitt <pittdj@pittdj.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > Peter Young, on 15 Apr, wrote:
>
> > > On 15 Apr 2015 Brian Jordan <brian.jordan9@btinternet.com> wrote:
> >>
> > > > In article <f71659b454.pnyoung@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk>,
> >>> Peter Young <pnyoung@ormail.co.uk> wrote:
> > > > > On 14 Apr 2015 Peter Young <pnyoung@ormail.co.uk> wrote:
[snip]
> > > > > > I tried to access http://www.remapglos.org.uk/ and get "Warning
> > > > > > from NetSurf: OK". The site works properly on Chrome in Windows.
> > > > > > I have the relevant logfile.
[snip]
> > Site loads OK here with JavaScript disabled with #2721
> [snip] However, what is the meaning of the unhelpful error message "OK"?
I would not read too much into the "OK", this is all work in progress.
The log gives a bit more detail :-
(53.230000) content/fetchers/curl.c fetch_curl_setup 285: fetch 0x65fc1680,
url 'http://www.remapglos.org.uk/scripts/AC_RunActiveContent.js'
(53.230000) render/html_script.c exec_src_script 445: 1 fetches active
(53.230000) render/html.c html_begin_conversion 1087: Parsing failed
(53.230000) riscos/gui.c warn_user 2084: OK (null)
That would indicate that there has been a JavaScript failure.
--
David Pitt
> On 15 Apr 2015 David Pitt <pittdj@pittdj.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > Peter Young, on 15 Apr, wrote:
>
> > > On 15 Apr 2015 Brian Jordan <brian.jordan9@btinternet.com> wrote:
> >>
> > > > In article <f71659b454.pnyoung@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk>,
> >>> Peter Young <pnyoung@ormail.co.uk> wrote:
> > > > > On 14 Apr 2015 Peter Young <pnyoung@ormail.co.uk> wrote:
[snip]
> > > > > > I tried to access http://www.remapglos.org.uk/ and get "Warning
> > > > > > from NetSurf: OK". The site works properly on Chrome in Windows.
> > > > > > I have the relevant logfile.
[snip]
> > Site loads OK here with JavaScript disabled with #2721
> [snip] However, what is the meaning of the unhelpful error message "OK"?
I would not read too much into the "OK", this is all work in progress.
The log gives a bit more detail :-
(53.230000) content/fetchers/curl.c fetch_curl_setup 285: fetch 0x65fc1680,
url 'http://www.remapglos.org.uk/scripts/AC_RunActiveContent.js'
(53.230000) render/html_script.c exec_src_script 445: 1 fetches active
(53.230000) render/html.c html_begin_conversion 1087: Parsing failed
(53.230000) riscos/gui.c warn_user 2084: OK (null)
That would indicate that there has been a JavaScript failure.
--
David Pitt
Re: Unable to report a bug.
On 15 Apr 2015 David Pitt <pittdj@pittdj.co.uk> wrote:
> Peter Young, on 15 Apr, wrote:
>> On 15 Apr 2015 Brian Jordan <brian.jordan9@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>
>>> In article <f71659b454.pnyoung@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk>,
>>> Peter Young <pnyoung@ormail.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> On 14 Apr 2015 Peter Young <pnyoung@ormail.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>>>> I have tried to report this on the bug tracker, but can't. It didn't
>>>>> accept my username and password, I have tried twice to change the
>>>>> password, and still can't get in. Perhaps someone who can access the
>>>>> tracker might kindly like to report it.
>>
>>>>> ARMini, RISC OS 5.18, NS #2720
>>
>>>>> I tried to access http://www.remapglos.org.uk/ and get "Warning from
>>>>> NetSurf: OK". The site works properly on Chrome in Windows. I have
>>>>> the relevant logfile.
>>
>>>> I have now been able to report this using Windows Chrome, but still
>>>> can't do it with RISC OS NetSurf. Why, I wonder?
>>
>>> If you want to enhance your report Netsurf is being tripped up by the
>>> following meta statement within the <head></head> of the document.
>>
>>> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content=
>>> "text/html; charset=us-ascii" />
>>
>>> An interesting page in many ways, running it through HTML Tidy here
>>> throws up a lot of warnings and concludes "Info: Document content looks
>>> like HTML Proprietary"
>>
>> Thanks, Brian, and I've added a note, even though I don't understand what
>> you say!
> Site loads OK here with JavaScript disabled with #2721
So it does, thanks. However, what is the meaning of the unhelpful
error message "OK"?
Best wishes,
Peter.
--
Peter Young (zfc Re) and family
Prestbury, Cheltenham, Glos. GL52, England
http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk
pnyoung@ormail.co.uk
> Peter Young, on 15 Apr, wrote:
>> On 15 Apr 2015 Brian Jordan <brian.jordan9@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>
>>> In article <f71659b454.pnyoung@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk>,
>>> Peter Young <pnyoung@ormail.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> On 14 Apr 2015 Peter Young <pnyoung@ormail.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>>>> I have tried to report this on the bug tracker, but can't. It didn't
>>>>> accept my username and password, I have tried twice to change the
>>>>> password, and still can't get in. Perhaps someone who can access the
>>>>> tracker might kindly like to report it.
>>
>>>>> ARMini, RISC OS 5.18, NS #2720
>>
>>>>> I tried to access http://www.remapglos.org.uk/ and get "Warning from
>>>>> NetSurf: OK". The site works properly on Chrome in Windows. I have
>>>>> the relevant logfile.
>>
>>>> I have now been able to report this using Windows Chrome, but still
>>>> can't do it with RISC OS NetSurf. Why, I wonder?
>>
>>> If you want to enhance your report Netsurf is being tripped up by the
>>> following meta statement within the <head></head> of the document.
>>
>>> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content=
>>> "text/html; charset=us-ascii" />
>>
>>> An interesting page in many ways, running it through HTML Tidy here
>>> throws up a lot of warnings and concludes "Info: Document content looks
>>> like HTML Proprietary"
>>
>> Thanks, Brian, and I've added a note, even though I don't understand what
>> you say!
> Site loads OK here with JavaScript disabled with #2721
So it does, thanks. However, what is the meaning of the unhelpful
error message "OK"?
Best wishes,
Peter.
--
Peter Young (zfc Re) and family
Prestbury, Cheltenham, Glos. GL52, England
http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk
pnyoung@ormail.co.uk
[gccsdk] Is this a WGET problem?
If you have NetRadio/Mplayer playing an Internet Radio Station
and WGET 1.15.1 is used - even a simple WGET --help
then Mplayer stops playing the sound.
MPlayer carries on as normal in the background - just no sound.
If I use an older 1.11.2 version of WGET there is no problem.
If another program such as AMPlayer is playing sound and 'WGET --help'
is used, there is no problem.
Where could the problem be please?
This problem happens on both an Iyonix PC with RISC OS 5.20
and a Raspberry Pi with RISC OS 5.21
WGET 1.15.1 can be downloaded from:
http://www.riscos.info/packages/NetworkDetails.html
Mplayer can be downloaded from:
http://www.riscos.info/packages/AudioDetails.html
NetRadio can be downloaded from:
http://www.bapfish.org.uk/netradio.htm
Bernard
--
Contact Me - http://www.bapfish.org.uk/contactme/
Web - http://www.bapfish.org.uk/
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and WGET 1.15.1 is used - even a simple WGET --help
then Mplayer stops playing the sound.
MPlayer carries on as normal in the background - just no sound.
If I use an older 1.11.2 version of WGET there is no problem.
If another program such as AMPlayer is playing sound and 'WGET --help'
is used, there is no problem.
Where could the problem be please?
This problem happens on both an Iyonix PC with RISC OS 5.20
and a Raspberry Pi with RISC OS 5.21
WGET 1.15.1 can be downloaded from:
http://www.riscos.info/packages/NetworkDetails.html
Mplayer can be downloaded from:
http://www.riscos.info/packages/AudioDetails.html
NetRadio can be downloaded from:
http://www.bapfish.org.uk/netradio.htm
Bernard
--
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Re: Unable to report a bug.
Peter Young, on 15 Apr, wrote:
> On 15 Apr 2015 Brian Jordan <brian.jordan9@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
> > In article <f71659b454.pnyoung@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk>,
> > Peter Young <pnyoung@ormail.co.uk> wrote:
> > > On 14 Apr 2015 Peter Young <pnyoung@ormail.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > > > I have tried to report this on the bug tracker, but can't. It didn't
> > > > accept my username and password, I have tried twice to change the
> > > > password, and still can't get in. Perhaps someone who can access the
> > > > tracker might kindly like to report it.
>
> > > > ARMini, RISC OS 5.18, NS #2720
>
> > > > I tried to access http://www.remapglos.org.uk/ and get "Warning from
> > > > NetSurf: OK". The site works properly on Chrome in Windows. I have
> > > > the relevant logfile.
>
> > > I have now been able to report this using Windows Chrome, but still
> > > can't do it with RISC OS NetSurf. Why, I wonder?
>
> > If you want to enhance your report Netsurf is being tripped up by the
> > following meta statement within the <head></head> of the document.
>
> > <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content=
> > "text/html; charset=us-ascii" />
>
> > An interesting page in many ways, running it through HTML Tidy here
> > throws up a lot of warnings and concludes "Info: Document content looks
> > like HTML Proprietary"
>
> Thanks, Brian, and I've added a note, even though I don't understand what
> you say!
Site loads OK here with JavaScript disabled with #2721
--
David Pitt
> On 15 Apr 2015 Brian Jordan <brian.jordan9@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
> > In article <f71659b454.pnyoung@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk>,
> > Peter Young <pnyoung@ormail.co.uk> wrote:
> > > On 14 Apr 2015 Peter Young <pnyoung@ormail.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > > > I have tried to report this on the bug tracker, but can't. It didn't
> > > > accept my username and password, I have tried twice to change the
> > > > password, and still can't get in. Perhaps someone who can access the
> > > > tracker might kindly like to report it.
>
> > > > ARMini, RISC OS 5.18, NS #2720
>
> > > > I tried to access http://www.remapglos.org.uk/ and get "Warning from
> > > > NetSurf: OK". The site works properly on Chrome in Windows. I have
> > > > the relevant logfile.
>
> > > I have now been able to report this using Windows Chrome, but still
> > > can't do it with RISC OS NetSurf. Why, I wonder?
>
> > If you want to enhance your report Netsurf is being tripped up by the
> > following meta statement within the <head></head> of the document.
>
> > <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content=
> > "text/html; charset=us-ascii" />
>
> > An interesting page in many ways, running it through HTML Tidy here
> > throws up a lot of warnings and concludes "Info: Document content looks
> > like HTML Proprietary"
>
> Thanks, Brian, and I've added a note, even though I don't understand what
> you say!
Site loads OK here with JavaScript disabled with #2721
--
David Pitt
Re: Unable to report a bug.
On 15 Apr 2015 Brian Jordan <brian.jordan9@btinternet.com> wrote:
> In article <f71659b454.pnyoung@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk>,
> Peter Young <pnyoung@ormail.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 14 Apr 2015 Peter Young <pnyoung@ormail.co.uk> wrote:
>>> I have tried to report this on the bug tracker, but can't. It didn't
>>> accept my username and password, I have tried twice to change the
>>> password, and still can't get in. Perhaps someone who can access the
>>> tracker might kindly like to report it.
>>> ARMini, RISC OS 5.18, NS #2720
>>> I tried to access http://www.remapglos.org.uk/ and get "Warning from
>>> NetSurf: OK". The site works properly on Chrome in Windows. I have the
>>> relevant logfile.
>> I have now been able to report this using Windows Chrome, but still
>> can't do it with RISC OS NetSurf. Why, I wonder?
> If you want to enhance your report Netsurf is being tripped up by the
> following meta statement within the <head></head> of the document.
> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content=
> "text/html; charset=us-ascii" />
> An interesting page in many ways, running it through HTML Tidy here
> throws up a lot of warnings and concludes "Info: Document content looks
> like HTML Proprietary"
Thanks, Brian, and I've added a note, even though I don't understand
what you say!
The NetSurf site seems to have had a hiccup this morning, in that I
could neither log in nor download the latest version. All seems to be
well now, and I can log in to the bug tracker using NetSurf once more.
Best wishes,
Peter.
--
Peter Young (zfc Re) and family
Prestbury, Cheltenham, Glos. GL52, England
http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk
pnyoung@ormail.co.uk
> In article <f71659b454.pnyoung@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk>,
> Peter Young <pnyoung@ormail.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 14 Apr 2015 Peter Young <pnyoung@ormail.co.uk> wrote:
>>> I have tried to report this on the bug tracker, but can't. It didn't
>>> accept my username and password, I have tried twice to change the
>>> password, and still can't get in. Perhaps someone who can access the
>>> tracker might kindly like to report it.
>>> ARMini, RISC OS 5.18, NS #2720
>>> I tried to access http://www.remapglos.org.uk/ and get "Warning from
>>> NetSurf: OK". The site works properly on Chrome in Windows. I have the
>>> relevant logfile.
>> I have now been able to report this using Windows Chrome, but still
>> can't do it with RISC OS NetSurf. Why, I wonder?
> If you want to enhance your report Netsurf is being tripped up by the
> following meta statement within the <head></head> of the document.
> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content=
> "text/html; charset=us-ascii" />
> An interesting page in many ways, running it through HTML Tidy here
> throws up a lot of warnings and concludes "Info: Document content looks
> like HTML Proprietary"
Thanks, Brian, and I've added a note, even though I don't understand
what you say!
The NetSurf site seems to have had a hiccup this morning, in that I
could neither log in nor download the latest version. All seems to be
well now, and I can log in to the bug tracker using NetSurf once more.
Best wishes,
Peter.
--
Peter Young (zfc Re) and family
Prestbury, Cheltenham, Glos. GL52, England
http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk
pnyoung@ormail.co.uk
Tuesday, 14 April 2015
Re: Unable to report a bug.
In article <f71659b454.pnyoung@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk>,
Peter Young <pnyoung@ormail.co.uk> wrote:
> On 14 Apr 2015 Peter Young <pnyoung@ormail.co.uk> wrote:
> > I have tried to report this on the bug tracker, but can't. It didn't
> > accept my username and password, I have tried twice to change the
> > password, and still can't get in. Perhaps someone who can access the
> > tracker might kindly like to report it.
> > ARMini, RISC OS 5.18, NS #2720
> > I tried to access http://www.remapglos.org.uk/ and get "Warning from
> > NetSurf: OK". The site works properly on Chrome in Windows. I have the
> > relevant logfile.
> I have now been able to report this using Windows Chrome, but still
> can't do it with RISC OS NetSurf. Why, I wonder?
If you want to enhance your report Netsurf is being tripped up by the
following meta statement within the <head></head> of the document.
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content=
"text/html; charset=us-ascii" />
An interesting page in many ways, running it through HTML Tidy here
throws up a lot of warnings and concludes "Info: Document content looks
like HTML Proprietary"
--
_____________________________________________________________________
Brian Jordan
Virtual RPC-AdjustSA on Windows 8.1 Pro
RISC OS 6.20
_____________________________________________________________________
Peter Young <pnyoung@ormail.co.uk> wrote:
> On 14 Apr 2015 Peter Young <pnyoung@ormail.co.uk> wrote:
> > I have tried to report this on the bug tracker, but can't. It didn't
> > accept my username and password, I have tried twice to change the
> > password, and still can't get in. Perhaps someone who can access the
> > tracker might kindly like to report it.
> > ARMini, RISC OS 5.18, NS #2720
> > I tried to access http://www.remapglos.org.uk/ and get "Warning from
> > NetSurf: OK". The site works properly on Chrome in Windows. I have the
> > relevant logfile.
> I have now been able to report this using Windows Chrome, but still
> can't do it with RISC OS NetSurf. Why, I wonder?
If you want to enhance your report Netsurf is being tripped up by the
following meta statement within the <head></head> of the document.
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content=
"text/html; charset=us-ascii" />
An interesting page in many ways, running it through HTML Tidy here
throws up a lot of warnings and concludes "Info: Document content looks
like HTML Proprietary"
--
_____________________________________________________________________
Brian Jordan
Virtual RPC-AdjustSA on Windows 8.1 Pro
RISC OS 6.20
_____________________________________________________________________
Re: Unable to report a bug.
On 14 Apr 2015 Peter Young <pnyoung@ormail.co.uk> wrote:
> I have tried to report this on the bug tracker, but can't. It didn't
> accept my username and password, I have tried twice to change the
> password, and still can't get in. Perhaps someone who can access the
> tracker might kindly like to report it.
> ARMini, RISC OS 5.18, NS #2720
> I tried to access http://www.remapglos.org.uk/ and get "Warning from
> NetSurf: OK". The site works properly on Chrome in Windows. I have the
> relevant logfile.
I have now been able to report this using Windows Chrome, but still
can't do it with RISC OS NetSurf. Why, I wonder?
Best wishes,
Peter.
--
Peter Young (zfc Re) and family
Prestbury, Cheltenham, Glos. GL52, England
http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk
pnyoung@ormail.co.uk
> I have tried to report this on the bug tracker, but can't. It didn't
> accept my username and password, I have tried twice to change the
> password, and still can't get in. Perhaps someone who can access the
> tracker might kindly like to report it.
> ARMini, RISC OS 5.18, NS #2720
> I tried to access http://www.remapglos.org.uk/ and get "Warning from
> NetSurf: OK". The site works properly on Chrome in Windows. I have the
> relevant logfile.
I have now been able to report this using Windows Chrome, but still
can't do it with RISC OS NetSurf. Why, I wonder?
Best wishes,
Peter.
--
Peter Young (zfc Re) and family
Prestbury, Cheltenham, Glos. GL52, England
http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk
pnyoung@ormail.co.uk
Unable to report a bug.
I have tried to report this on the bug tracker, but can't. It didn't
accept my username and password, I have tried twice to change the
password, and still can't get in. Perhaps someone who can access the
tracker might kindly like to report it.
ARMini, RISC OS 5.18, NS #2720
I tried to access http://www.remapglos.org.uk/ and get "Warning from
NetSurf: OK". The site works properly on Chrome in Windows. I have the
relevant logfile.
Best wishes,
Peter.
--
Peter Young (zfc Re) and family
Prestbury, Cheltenham, Glos. GL52, England
http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk
pnyoung@ormail.co.uk
accept my username and password, I have tried twice to change the
password, and still can't get in. Perhaps someone who can access the
tracker might kindly like to report it.
ARMini, RISC OS 5.18, NS #2720
I tried to access http://www.remapglos.org.uk/ and get "Warning from
NetSurf: OK". The site works properly on Chrome in Windows. I have the
relevant logfile.
Best wishes,
Peter.
--
Peter Young (zfc Re) and family
Prestbury, Cheltenham, Glos. GL52, England
http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk
pnyoung@ormail.co.uk
Sunday, 12 April 2015
Re: [gccsdk] Workaround compiling gcc.c with Ubuntu 12.04
In message <1428843955.2198.14.camel@mark-desktop>
Mark Beerling <beerling@online.de> wrote:
> Compiling gccsdk 4.7.4 with Ubuntu 12.04 on a BBxM
>
> in file gccsdk/gcc4/srcdir/gcc/gcc/gcc.c at line 1272 is
>
> #ifdef EXTRA_SPEC_FUNCTIONS
> EXTRA_SPEC_FUNCTIONS
>
Mark Beerling <beerling@online.de> wrote:
> Compiling gccsdk 4.7.4 with Ubuntu 12.04 on a BBxM
>
> in file gccsdk/gcc4/srcdir/gcc/gcc/gcc.c at line 1272 is
>
> #ifdef EXTRA_SPEC_FUNCTIONS
> EXTRA_SPEC_FUNCTIONS
>
problem with sdl loop
Hi, I have this problem with sdl frontend:
if I move mouse for example for 5 sec. then loop is turned on for 5 sec too.This happens only with netsurf m68k toolchain which uses clib2.
With other c lib called libnix and ixemul it weorks ok.
[gccsdk] Workaround compiling gcc.c with Ubuntu 12.04
Compiling gccsdk 4.7.4 with Ubuntu 12.04 on a BBxM
in file gccsdk/gcc4/srcdir/gcc/gcc/gcc.c at line 1272 is
#ifdef EXTRA_SPEC_FUNCTIONS
EXTRA_SPEC_FUNCTIONS
in file gccsdk/gcc4/srcdir/gcc/gcc/gcc.c at line 1272 is
#ifdef EXTRA_SPEC_FUNCTIONS
EXTRA_SPEC_FUNCTIONS
Thursday, 9 April 2015
Re: Updated disc cache summary
In article <55256EA0.8010300@netsurf-browser.org>,
Michael Drake <tlsa@netsurf-browser.org> wrote:
> On 08/04/15 12:41, Chris Newman wrote:
> > So given all this, on my RiscPC Strong ARMv4 Adjust 4.39 with Unipod, to what
> > should I set the Cache parameters in NetSurf Choices?
> Too slow to be useful. Set disc cache size to 0.
Ta.
--
Chris
Michael Drake <tlsa@netsurf-browser.org> wrote:
> On 08/04/15 12:41, Chris Newman wrote:
> > So given all this, on my RiscPC Strong ARMv4 Adjust 4.39 with Unipod, to what
> > should I set the Cache parameters in NetSurf Choices?
> Too slow to be useful. Set disc cache size to 0.
Ta.
--
Chris
Re: Small, but old bug
In message <20150409203946.GB19625@kyllikki.org>
on 9 Apr 2015 Vincent Sanders <vince@netsurf-browser.org> wrote:
> Fixing this is earmarked for our 4.0 series and needs a re-written
> render engine. The new engine is a job comparable in size to the
> entire project to date and has not yet been started.
You guys are brave - or maybe foolhardy!
Thanks for your efforts so far :-)
Regards
Andrew
--
Andrew Pinder
on 9 Apr 2015 Vincent Sanders <vince@netsurf-browser.org> wrote:
> Fixing this is earmarked for our 4.0 series and needs a re-written
> render engine. The new engine is a job comparable in size to the
> entire project to date and has not yet been started.
You guys are brave - or maybe foolhardy!
Thanks for your efforts so far :-)
Regards
Andrew
--
Andrew Pinder
Re: Small, but old bug
On Thu, Apr 09, 2015 at 05:20:52PM +0200, David Feugey wrote:
> When I made a page with accents, all is OK with Unicode.
> For example "élément"
>
> But if I use HTML codes, (éléments), NetSurf considers that
> there are 3 words "é"+"lé"+"memts". A cut after each special characters.
>
> And so carriage return is sometimes applied at the wrong place.
> Will this bug be corrected?
>
> Bye, David
This is in the tracker already as bugs #467 [1], #408 [2] and #476 [3]
It is caused because our text reflow and word breaking algorithm does
not meet the standard and breaks words where it really ought not to.
For an explanation of the complexity involved in reflowing text
efficiently on constrained system computerphile did a couple of
excellent videos. [4][5] While these specifically talk about e-readers,
a browser faces similar challenges (and more)
Fixing this is earmarked for our 4.0 series and needs a re-written
render engine. The new engine is a job comparable in size to the
entire project to date and has not yet been started.
[1] http://bugs.netsurf-browser.org/mantis/view.php?id=467
[2] http://bugs.netsurf-browser.org/mantis/view.php?id=408
[3] http://bugs.netsurf-browser.org/mantis/view.php?id=476
[4] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzdugwr4Fgk
[5] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdbvgRqyC-0
--
Regards Vincent
http://www.kyllikki.org/
> When I made a page with accents, all is OK with Unicode.
> For example "élément"
>
> But if I use HTML codes, (éléments), NetSurf considers that
> there are 3 words "é"+"lé"+"memts". A cut after each special characters.
>
> And so carriage return is sometimes applied at the wrong place.
> Will this bug be corrected?
>
> Bye, David
This is in the tracker already as bugs #467 [1], #408 [2] and #476 [3]
It is caused because our text reflow and word breaking algorithm does
not meet the standard and breaks words where it really ought not to.
For an explanation of the complexity involved in reflowing text
efficiently on constrained system computerphile did a couple of
excellent videos. [4][5] While these specifically talk about e-readers,
a browser faces similar challenges (and more)
Fixing this is earmarked for our 4.0 series and needs a re-written
render engine. The new engine is a job comparable in size to the
entire project to date and has not yet been started.
[1] http://bugs.netsurf-browser.org/mantis/view.php?id=467
[2] http://bugs.netsurf-browser.org/mantis/view.php?id=408
[3] http://bugs.netsurf-browser.org/mantis/view.php?id=476
[4] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzdugwr4Fgk
[5] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdbvgRqyC-0
--
Regards Vincent
http://www.kyllikki.org/
Re: Small, but old bug
On 9 Apr 2015 David Feugey <dfeugey@ascinfo.fr> wrote:
> When I made a page with accents, all is OK with Unicode.
> For example "élément"
> But if I use HTML codes, (éléments), NetSurf considers that
> there are 3 words "é"+"lé"+"memts". A cut after each special characters.
> And so carriage return is sometimes applied at the wrong place.
> Will this bug be corrected?
Certainly not, if nobody reports it on the bug tracker.
Best wishes,
Peter.
--
Peter Young (zfc Re) and family
Prestbury, Cheltenham, Glos. GL52, England
http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk
pnyoung@ormail.co.uk
> When I made a page with accents, all is OK with Unicode.
> For example "élément"
> But if I use HTML codes, (éléments), NetSurf considers that
> there are 3 words "é"+"lé"+"memts". A cut after each special characters.
> And so carriage return is sometimes applied at the wrong place.
> Will this bug be corrected?
Certainly not, if nobody reports it on the bug tracker.
Best wishes,
Peter.
--
Peter Young (zfc Re) and family
Prestbury, Cheltenham, Glos. GL52, England
http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk
pnyoung@ormail.co.uk
Re: Small, but old bug
In article
<CAC85+4KfBdFP6j-=6JJprxR9Yzi92anfvjCg8p81Wq-MqffDFg@mail.gmail.com>,
David Feugey <dfeugey@ascinfo.fr> wrote:
> And so carriage return is sometimes applied at the wrong place.
> Will this bug be corrected?
I think this 'bug' has been present for a long time, where NetSurf
puts in a line break at a tag or entity, splitting words etc. You
read the ROOL forum. Have you not noticed that words like you're or
won't or I'll get split if the html code for the right single quote
is being used. These abbeviations are used a lot in the forum, so the
splitting at the end of a line is quite common. It also happens with
tags if they are used in the middle of a word, eg if a sequence such
as <i>iso</i>propyl is being used. I am working on converting some
issues of Archive magazine to html at the moment and the sequence
R<small>ISC OS</small> is used a lot, so it gets split regularly.
--
Chris Johnson
<CAC85+4KfBdFP6j-=6JJprxR9Yzi92anfvjCg8p81Wq-MqffDFg@mail.gmail.com>,
David Feugey <dfeugey@ascinfo.fr> wrote:
> And so carriage return is sometimes applied at the wrong place.
> Will this bug be corrected?
I think this 'bug' has been present for a long time, where NetSurf
puts in a line break at a tag or entity, splitting words etc. You
read the ROOL forum. Have you not noticed that words like you're or
won't or I'll get split if the html code for the right single quote
is being used. These abbeviations are used a lot in the forum, so the
splitting at the end of a line is quite common. It also happens with
tags if they are used in the middle of a word, eg if a sequence such
as <i>iso</i>propyl is being used. I am working on converting some
issues of Archive magazine to html at the moment and the sequence
R<small>ISC OS</small> is used a lot, so it gets split regularly.
--
Chris Johnson
Small, but old bug
When I made a page with accents, all is OK with Unicode.
For example "élément"Bye, David
Re: Updated disc cache
On 3 Apr 2015 as I do recall,
Vincent Sanders wrote:
[snip]
> If you are feeling very adventurous you can report the bandwidth
> achieved. This is a line in the debug Log file held in scrap *after*
> the browser has been quit. The last line of the Log will read
> something like:
>
> (2298.806358) desktop/netsurf.c netsurf_exit 294: Exited successfully
>
> The bandwidth line will be about 20 lines from the end of the log and look like
>
> (2298.804881) content/llcache.c llcache_finalise 3352: Backing store average bandwidth 128324035 bytes/second
>
Results with Netsurf 2687 on Iyonix: the program now *sometimes* doesn't
complain about disc cache bandwidth, whereas previously it invariably
complained!
It seems to be completely random: here are results from three runs done
within minutes of each other, of which the cache failed on two almost
instantly and gave no trouble on the third, which was image-heavy.
(75.120000) content/llcache.c llcache_finalise 3352: Backing store average bandwidth 13140 bytes/second
(84.500000) content/llcache.c llcache_finalise 3352: Backing store average bandwidth 4887 bytes/second
(239.030000) content/llcache.c llcache_finalise 3352: Backing store average bandwidth 210663 bytes/second
--
Harriet Bazley == Loyaulte me lie ==
People who live in stone houses shouldn't throw glasses.
Vincent Sanders wrote:
[snip]
> If you are feeling very adventurous you can report the bandwidth
> achieved. This is a line in the debug Log file held in scrap *after*
> the browser has been quit. The last line of the Log will read
> something like:
>
> (2298.806358) desktop/netsurf.c netsurf_exit 294: Exited successfully
>
> The bandwidth line will be about 20 lines from the end of the log and look like
>
> (2298.804881) content/llcache.c llcache_finalise 3352: Backing store average bandwidth 128324035 bytes/second
>
Results with Netsurf 2687 on Iyonix: the program now *sometimes* doesn't
complain about disc cache bandwidth, whereas previously it invariably
complained!
It seems to be completely random: here are results from three runs done
within minutes of each other, of which the cache failed on two almost
instantly and gave no trouble on the third, which was image-heavy.
(75.120000) content/llcache.c llcache_finalise 3352: Backing store average bandwidth 13140 bytes/second
(84.500000) content/llcache.c llcache_finalise 3352: Backing store average bandwidth 4887 bytes/second
(239.030000) content/llcache.c llcache_finalise 3352: Backing store average bandwidth 210663 bytes/second
--
Harriet Bazley == Loyaulte me lie ==
People who live in stone houses shouldn't throw glasses.
Wednesday, 8 April 2015
Re: i have some question about libcss parse shorthand properties
On 02/04/15 04:07, lionxing wrote:
> i building libcss to iOS , libcss is a awesome framework, but now i have some problem to use libcss ,
> when is parse shorthand properties like this ".one {background: white url() no-repaet center Top;}"
> i found it doesn't work, maybe i must be implement some css_select_handler function?
Shorthand properties are implemented and they work. The example you
give will not work because "no-repeat" is spelt incorrectly.
Cheers,
--
Michael Drake http://www.netsurf-browser.org/
> i building libcss to iOS , libcss is a awesome framework, but now i have some problem to use libcss ,
> when is parse shorthand properties like this ".one {background: white url() no-repaet center Top;}"
> i found it doesn't work, maybe i must be implement some css_select_handler function?
Shorthand properties are implemented and they work. The example you
give will not work because "no-repeat" is spelt incorrectly.
Cheers,
--
Michael Drake http://www.netsurf-browser.org/
Re: Updated disc cache summary
On 08/04/15 12:41, Chris Newman wrote:
> So given all this, on my RiscPC Strong ARMv4 Adjust 4.39 with Unipod, to what
> should I set the Cache parameters in NetSurf Choices?
Too slow to be useful. Set disc cache size to 0.
--
Michael Drake http://www.netsurf-browser.org/
> So given all this, on my RiscPC Strong ARMv4 Adjust 4.39 with Unipod, to what
> should I set the Cache parameters in NetSurf Choices?
Too slow to be useful. Set disc cache size to 0.
--
Michael Drake http://www.netsurf-browser.org/
Re: Updated disc cache summary
In article <20150408104544.GG18724@kyllikki.org>,
Vincent Sanders <vince@netsurf-browser.org> wrote:
> Just to summarise the outcome of all the observations on the improved
> disc cache.
> The improvements make the cache viable on many more supported systems,
> including more RISC OS systems.
> On PC with modern OS it made no great improvement as their OS could
> already cope with the directory layout and had a plentiful write speed
> already.
> No test I ran on PC saw the write rate, before or after the changes,
> drop below 30 megabytes a second. Although the updated cache does use
> less processor time to achieve its results.
> On RISC OS the benefit is stark and very clear. Most tests show a five
> fold or more improvement in write performace using the new code and
> many fewer directories created.
<Big snip>
So given all this, on my RiscPC Strong ARMv4 Adjust 4.39 with Unipod, to what
should I set the Cache parameters in Netsurf Choices?
Will the cache automaticaly be made in
IDEFS::h-4.$.!Boot.Choices.Users.Single.WWW.NetSurf
Regards,
--
Chris
Vincent Sanders <vince@netsurf-browser.org> wrote:
> Just to summarise the outcome of all the observations on the improved
> disc cache.
> The improvements make the cache viable on many more supported systems,
> including more RISC OS systems.
> On PC with modern OS it made no great improvement as their OS could
> already cope with the directory layout and had a plentiful write speed
> already.
> No test I ran on PC saw the write rate, before or after the changes,
> drop below 30 megabytes a second. Although the updated cache does use
> less processor time to achieve its results.
> On RISC OS the benefit is stark and very clear. Most tests show a five
> fold or more improvement in write performace using the new code and
> many fewer directories created.
<Big snip>
So given all this, on my RiscPC Strong ARMv4 Adjust 4.39 with Unipod, to what
should I set the Cache parameters in Netsurf Choices?
Will the cache automaticaly be made in
IDEFS::h-4.$.!Boot.Choices.Users.Single.WWW.NetSurf
Regards,
--
Chris
Updated disc cache summary
Just to summarise the outcome of all the observations on the improved
disc cache.
The improvements make the cache viable on many more supported systems,
including more RISC OS systems.
On PC with modern OS it made no great improvement as their OS could
already cope with the directory layout and had a plentiful write speed
already.
No test I ran on PC saw the write rate, before or after the changes,
drop below 30 megabytes a second. Although the updated cache does use
less processor time to achieve its results.
On RISC OS the benefit is stark and very clear. Most tests show a five
fold or more improvement in write performace using the new code and
many fewer directories created.
The sumamry of results from all the data points I have access to:
+------------+----------+
| System | Rate K/s |
+------------+----------+
| Rpi | 7 |
| ARM mini | 33 |
| Iyonix [1] | 300 |
| a9 | 500 |
| vrpc | 570 |
| ARMX6 | 2700 |
+------------+----------+
This shows that the disc cache is now useful on RISC OS for most non
SD based systems.
The Raspberry Pi running RISC OS and the ARM mini both appear to react
very poorly indeed to the write pattern used by the disc cache. Users
on such systems should ensure the cache is disabled by setting it to 0
size in the options.
The Iyonix is a bit of a difficult one to call, its disc write speed
appears to be very volatile. Though on average it is beneficial to
enable the cache on this hardware.
The standout here is the ARMX6 which is managing a very respectable
(for RISC OS) 2.7 megabytes per second with the new code some 8 times
better than before the changes.
[1] The Iyonix write rate seems highly variable and ranges between 90
and 400 K/s
--
Regards Vincent
http://www.kyllikki.org/
disc cache.
The improvements make the cache viable on many more supported systems,
including more RISC OS systems.
On PC with modern OS it made no great improvement as their OS could
already cope with the directory layout and had a plentiful write speed
already.
No test I ran on PC saw the write rate, before or after the changes,
drop below 30 megabytes a second. Although the updated cache does use
less processor time to achieve its results.
On RISC OS the benefit is stark and very clear. Most tests show a five
fold or more improvement in write performace using the new code and
many fewer directories created.
The sumamry of results from all the data points I have access to:
+------------+----------+
| System | Rate K/s |
+------------+----------+
| Rpi | 7 |
| ARM mini | 33 |
| Iyonix [1] | 300 |
| a9 | 500 |
| vrpc | 570 |
| ARMX6 | 2700 |
+------------+----------+
This shows that the disc cache is now useful on RISC OS for most non
SD based systems.
The Raspberry Pi running RISC OS and the ARM mini both appear to react
very poorly indeed to the write pattern used by the disc cache. Users
on such systems should ensure the cache is disabled by setting it to 0
size in the options.
The Iyonix is a bit of a difficult one to call, its disc write speed
appears to be very volatile. Though on average it is beneficial to
enable the cache on this hardware.
The standout here is the ARMX6 which is managing a very respectable
(for RISC OS) 2.7 megabytes per second with the new code some 8 times
better than before the changes.
[1] The Iyonix write rate seems highly variable and ranges between 90
and 400 K/s
--
Regards Vincent
http://www.kyllikki.org/
Tuesday, 7 April 2015
Re: Updated disc cache
In article <20150403135750.GE18724@kyllikki.org>,
Vincent Sanders <vince@netsurf-browser.org> wrote:
> <snip>
> > > > I suspect much of the delay for small files is due to checking,
> > > > creating, and traversing directories!
> >
> > > The depth was chosen so it would work on poor-quality file systems
> > > that only allow a handful of entries in a directory, such as
> > > FileCore :)
> >
> > It is a shame that there is no simple way to discover if 'big
> > directories' are being used with no such limitations, as they have
> > been here for many many years.
> A bit technical for this list but
> http://git.netsurf-browser.org/netsurf.git/tree/content/fs_backing_store.c#n326
> explains ...
I did have a look, but clear as mud to me.
I have just deleted my cache from Netsurf v3.3 - about 2,500 files ...
and about 12,500 directories! That is about 5 directories for each file,
and I would hope for at least 50 files in each directory!
But I do understand that it is not simple task!
Vincent Sanders <vince@netsurf-browser.org> wrote:
> <snip>
> > > > I suspect much of the delay for small files is due to checking,
> > > > creating, and traversing directories!
> >
> > > The depth was chosen so it would work on poor-quality file systems
> > > that only allow a handful of entries in a directory, such as
> > > FileCore :)
> >
> > It is a shame that there is no simple way to discover if 'big
> > directories' are being used with no such limitations, as they have
> > been here for many many years.
> A bit technical for this list but
> http://git.netsurf-browser.org/netsurf.git/tree/content/fs_backing_store.c#n326
> explains ...
I did have a look, but clear as mud to me.
I have just deleted my cache from Netsurf v3.3 - about 2,500 files ...
and about 12,500 directories! That is about 5 directories for each file,
and I would hope for at least 50 files in each directory!
But I do understand that it is not simple task!
Re: Updated disc cache
In message <20150403111441.GB18724@kyllikki.org>
on 3 Apr 2015 Vincent Sanders <vince@netsurf-browser.org> wrote:
> I know several RISC OS users regularly use the CI builds and have had
> issues with the disc cache. This is partly a request for assistance
> and partly a warning.
> I have recently changed the disc based caching to use fewer small
> files. This change is not backwards compatible and will leave the old
> cache files behind.
> I would suggest that any of you using the disc cache to delete it
> before running a NetSurf CI version after #2696 NetSurf will continue
> to run just fine if you do not but all the old cache files will be
> left behind and never cleaned up.
> The upside of this change is that it *may* help with performance for
> those of you that were seeing repeated warnings about insufficient
> disc bandwidth.
> As I have explained previously on several occasions the RISC OS
> filesystem performance appears to be very poor when using several
> small files, the new system uses a handful of large files as well to
> remove this as an issue.
> If you have previously disabled the cache please can I ask you to
> retry with the newer versions and see if the performance has improved?
> If you are feeling very adventurous you can report the bandwidth
> achieved. This is a line in the debug Log file held in scrap *after*
> the browser has been quit. The last line of the Log will read
> something like:
> (2298.806358) desktop/netsurf.c netsurf_exit 294: Exited successfully
> The bandwidth line will be about 20 lines from the end of the log and
> look like
> (2298.804881) content/llcache.c llcache_finalise 3352: Backing store
> average bandwidth 128324035 bytes/second
ARMini with RO 5.20 (10 June 2013)
NS #2697
I went only to the www.buxtonweather.co.uk website. In the log I
found these
(20.420000) content/llcache.c llcache_persist 2494: Overran timeslot
(30.880000) content/llcache.c llcache_persist_slowcheck 2438: Cannot
write minimum bandwidth
(59.820000) content/llcache.c llcache_finalise 3352: Backing store
average bandwidth 33092 bytes/second
That last line was many more than 20 lines from the end of the file
Regards
Andrew
--
Andrew Pinder
on 3 Apr 2015 Vincent Sanders <vince@netsurf-browser.org> wrote:
> I know several RISC OS users regularly use the CI builds and have had
> issues with the disc cache. This is partly a request for assistance
> and partly a warning.
> I have recently changed the disc based caching to use fewer small
> files. This change is not backwards compatible and will leave the old
> cache files behind.
> I would suggest that any of you using the disc cache to delete it
> before running a NetSurf CI version after #2696 NetSurf will continue
> to run just fine if you do not but all the old cache files will be
> left behind and never cleaned up.
> The upside of this change is that it *may* help with performance for
> those of you that were seeing repeated warnings about insufficient
> disc bandwidth.
> As I have explained previously on several occasions the RISC OS
> filesystem performance appears to be very poor when using several
> small files, the new system uses a handful of large files as well to
> remove this as an issue.
> If you have previously disabled the cache please can I ask you to
> retry with the newer versions and see if the performance has improved?
> If you are feeling very adventurous you can report the bandwidth
> achieved. This is a line in the debug Log file held in scrap *after*
> the browser has been quit. The last line of the Log will read
> something like:
> (2298.806358) desktop/netsurf.c netsurf_exit 294: Exited successfully
> The bandwidth line will be about 20 lines from the end of the log and
> look like
> (2298.804881) content/llcache.c llcache_finalise 3352: Backing store
> average bandwidth 128324035 bytes/second
ARMini with RO 5.20 (10 June 2013)
NS #2697
I went only to the www.buxtonweather.co.uk website. In the log I
found these
(20.420000) content/llcache.c llcache_persist 2494: Overran timeslot
(30.880000) content/llcache.c llcache_persist_slowcheck 2438: Cannot
write minimum bandwidth
(59.820000) content/llcache.c llcache_finalise 3352: Backing store
average bandwidth 33092 bytes/second
That last line was many more than 20 lines from the end of the file
Regards
Andrew
--
Andrew Pinder
Monday, 6 April 2015
Re: Updated disc cache
In article <e26e3db054.Andrew-Pin@waitrose.com>,
Andrew Pinder <Andrew.Pinder@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
> > In article <54aec5195fStuartlists@orpheusinternet.co.uk>,
> > lists <Stuartlists@orpheusinternet.co.uk> wrote:
> >> Average bandwidth 355822 bytes/second
> >> NetSurf CI #2680 ARMX6
> > So nothing much to write home about there, considering some of the
> > hype surrounding the disc speed of the ARMX6.
> Stuart is reporting values from a version (#2680) before the upgrade
> that improves things (after #2696).
Very quick look at the BBC site (I got a couple of time-outs from the
daily mail before giving up) 2790273 with version CI # 2967.
--
Stuart Winsor
Tools With A Mission
sending tools across the world
http://www.twam.co.uk/
Andrew Pinder <Andrew.Pinder@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
> > In article <54aec5195fStuartlists@orpheusinternet.co.uk>,
> > lists <Stuartlists@orpheusinternet.co.uk> wrote:
> >> Average bandwidth 355822 bytes/second
> >> NetSurf CI #2680 ARMX6
> > So nothing much to write home about there, considering some of the
> > hype surrounding the disc speed of the ARMX6.
> Stuart is reporting values from a version (#2680) before the upgrade
> that improves things (after #2696).
Very quick look at the BBC site (I got a couple of time-outs from the
daily mail before giving up) 2790273 with version CI # 2967.
--
Stuart Winsor
Tools With A Mission
sending tools across the world
http://www.twam.co.uk/
[Rpcemu] Thank you for RPCEmu!
Hello altogether,
I just wanted to say a quick "Thank you" for all the hard work that went
into RPCEmu.
A few days ago I did a quick RPCEmu Linux setup in a VirtualBox VM and was
very happy with the available instructions and the result (I compiled from
source via the Mercurial clone).
I blogged about the experience here (sorry, German only):
http://riscosblog.huber-net.de/2015/03/rpcemu-unter-linux-ein-kochbuch/
Steffen
--
Steffen Huber LambdaComm System - Welcome to Trollinger Country
steffen@huber-net.de
Private homepage http://www.huber-net.de/
_______________________________________________
Rpcemu mailing list
Rpcemu@riscos.info
http://www.riscos.info/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/rpcemu
I just wanted to say a quick "Thank you" for all the hard work that went
into RPCEmu.
A few days ago I did a quick RPCEmu Linux setup in a VirtualBox VM and was
very happy with the available instructions and the result (I compiled from
source via the Mercurial clone).
I blogged about the experience here (sorry, German only):
http://riscosblog.huber-net.de/2015/03/rpcemu-unter-linux-ein-kochbuch/
Steffen
--
Steffen Huber LambdaComm System - Welcome to Trollinger Country
steffen@huber-net.de
Private homepage http://www.huber-net.de/
_______________________________________________
Rpcemu mailing list
Rpcemu@riscos.info
http://www.riscos.info/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/rpcemu
Re: Updated disc cache
In message <54af215e1bchris@chris-johnson.org.uk>
on 4 Apr 2015 cj <chris@chris-johnson.org.uk> wrote:
> In article <54aec5195fStuartlists@orpheusinternet.co.uk>,
> lists <Stuartlists@orpheusinternet.co.uk> wrote:
>> Average bandwidth 355822 bytes/second
>> NetSurf CI #2680 ARMX6
> So nothing much to write home about there, considering some of the
> hype surrounding the disc speed of the ARMX6.
Stuart is reporting values from a version (#2680) before the upgrade
that improves things (after #2696).
Regards
Andrew
--
Andrew Pinder
on 4 Apr 2015 cj <chris@chris-johnson.org.uk> wrote:
> In article <54aec5195fStuartlists@orpheusinternet.co.uk>,
> lists <Stuartlists@orpheusinternet.co.uk> wrote:
>> Average bandwidth 355822 bytes/second
>> NetSurf CI #2680 ARMX6
> So nothing much to write home about there, considering some of the
> hype surrounding the disc speed of the ARMX6.
Stuart is reporting values from a version (#2680) before the upgrade
that improves things (after #2696).
Regards
Andrew
--
Andrew Pinder
Sunday, 5 April 2015
Re: Which font does NetSurf use?
On Sun, Apr 05, 2015 at 09:10:41PM +0100, Gavin Wraith wrote:
> When NetSurf renders the character pi (π) how does it
> choose which font to use?
If memory serves, it uses RUfl (RISC OS Unicode Font Library), which
depending on if the host OS supports Unicode font rendering (ie, not
ROL's OS) will either select the glyph in the current font if it has it,
or will switch to a different codepage to render it. How it chooses the
font is based on a heuristic involving font weight and style
(sans/serif, bold, oblique, approximate size metrics, etc). If there
are multiple possibilities, my bet is it picks the first it finds.
I don't think anybody has touched this code in a long time, but here it
is:
http://git.netsurf-browser.org/librufl.git/tree/src
B.
> When NetSurf renders the character pi (π) how does it
> choose which font to use?
If memory serves, it uses RUfl (RISC OS Unicode Font Library), which
depending on if the host OS supports Unicode font rendering (ie, not
ROL's OS) will either select the glyph in the current font if it has it,
or will switch to a different codepage to render it. How it chooses the
font is based on a heuristic involving font weight and style
(sans/serif, bold, oblique, approximate size metrics, etc). If there
are multiple possibilities, my bet is it picks the first it finds.
I don't think anybody has touched this code in a long time, but here it
is:
http://git.netsurf-browser.org/librufl.git/tree/src
B.
Which font does NetSurf use?
When NetSurf renders the character pi (π) how does it
choose which font to use?
--
Gavin Wraith (gavin@wra1th.plus.com)
Home page: http://www.wra1th.plus.com/
choose which font to use?
--
Gavin Wraith (gavin@wra1th.plus.com)
Home page: http://www.wra1th.plus.com/
[Rpcemu] RPCEmu on Surface Pro tablet
Has anyone managed to get RPCEmu running on the Surface Pro tablet?
Obviously RPCEmu is not touch-screen friendly, but AFAIK the Surface
Pro supports a USB mouse, so in theory it should be possible.
--
George
_______________________________________________
Rpcemu mailing list
Rpcemu@riscos.info
http://www.riscos.info/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/rpcemu
Obviously RPCEmu is not touch-screen friendly, but AFAIK the Surface
Pro supports a USB mouse, so in theory it should be possible.
--
George
_______________________________________________
Rpcemu mailing list
Rpcemu@riscos.info
http://www.riscos.info/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/rpcemu
Saturday, 4 April 2015
Re: Updated disc cache
In article <54af215e1bchris@chris-johnson.org.uk>,
cj <chris@chris-johnson.org.uk> wrote:
> > NetSurf CI #2680 ARMX6
> So nothing much to write home about there, considering some of the
> hype surrounding the disc speed of the ARMX6.
I'm not sure how much the download speed affects the results; I had
several "timeouts" during the session. Perhaps we all need to try with the
same site to get a relative measure.
I would say the ARMX6 is pretty fast. When !Pluto is loaded it "expires"
old articles. I always used to see the message "expiring..." and it took
several seconds. I don't see the message anymore.anymore.
--
Stuart Winsor
Tools With A Mission
sending tools across the world
http://www.twam.co.uk/
cj <chris@chris-johnson.org.uk> wrote:
> > NetSurf CI #2680 ARMX6
> So nothing much to write home about there, considering some of the
> hype surrounding the disc speed of the ARMX6.
I'm not sure how much the download speed affects the results; I had
several "timeouts" during the session. Perhaps we all need to try with the
same site to get a relative measure.
I would say the ARMX6 is pretty fast. When !Pluto is loaded it "expires"
old articles. I always used to see the message "expiring..." and it took
several seconds. I don't see the message anymore.anymore.
--
Stuart Winsor
Tools With A Mission
sending tools across the world
http://www.twam.co.uk/
Re: Updated disc cache
In article <54aec5195fStuartlists@orpheusinternet.co.uk>,
lists <Stuartlists@orpheusinternet.co.uk> wrote:
> Average bandwidth 355822 bytes/second
> NetSurf CI #2680 ARMX6
So nothing much to write home about there, considering some of the
hype surrounding the disc speed of the ARMX6.
--
Chris Johnson
lists <Stuartlists@orpheusinternet.co.uk> wrote:
> Average bandwidth 355822 bytes/second
> NetSurf CI #2680 ARMX6
So nothing much to write home about there, considering some of the
hype surrounding the disc speed of the ARMX6.
--
Chris Johnson
Re: Updated disc cache
In message <20150403135237.GD18724@kyllikki.org>
Vincent Sanders <vince@netsurf-browser.org> wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 03, 2015 at 02:39:05PM +0100, cj wrote:
>> In article <mpro.nm8dx001qojsl00l7.pittdj@pittdj.co.uk>,
>> David Pitt <pittdj@pittdj.co.uk> wrote:
>> > Hmm! My Iyonix did over three time better than that, and there was
>> > no "too slow" message. My test piece was http://www.dailymail.co.uk
>> > because that is a particularly heavy duty site.
>>
>> OK. A lot of random browsing around that site led to:
>>
>> (5743.130000) content/llcache.c llcache_finalise 3352: Backing store
>> average bandwidth 531777 bytes/second
>>
>> which is over 5 times faster. However, I thought we would be talking
>> drive speed, which shouldn't be affected by the download speed of any
>> particular site, or am I completely up the wrong alley?
>
> That value is *purely* the total amount *written* to disc divided by
> how long the write operations took. The write time includes all
> directory creation/seek operations etc. rather than just the raw disc
> write performance.
>
> Anything above a megabit a second (125000 bytes/second) will not
> trigger the warning about low write speed. I set it there because
> below that value the overheads of disc caching exceed the benefit of
> simply fetching data from the network.
>
I have some results from my Pi B (system details below):
1. Accessing Steve's Digicams Reviews (a content-heavy page)
http://www.steves-digicams.com/camera-reviews/
content/llcache.c llcache_finalise 3352: Backing store average
bandwidth 6426 bytes/second;
2. Accessing Digital Photography Review
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews
content/llcache.c llcache_finalise 3352: Backing store average
bandwidth 449 bytes/second.
Pretty dire, and unsurprisingly the 'inadequate bandwidth' warning was
triggered in both cases. NetSurf is running on my system SD card, a
Kingston 4GB class 10 item. Other system details: NS 3.4 [Dev CI
#2696], RasPi B @ 900MHz, RO 5.21 [RC12, 12-Jan-15].
--
George
Vincent Sanders <vince@netsurf-browser.org> wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 03, 2015 at 02:39:05PM +0100, cj wrote:
>> In article <mpro.nm8dx001qojsl00l7.pittdj@pittdj.co.uk>,
>> David Pitt <pittdj@pittdj.co.uk> wrote:
>> > Hmm! My Iyonix did over three time better than that, and there was
>> > no "too slow" message. My test piece was http://www.dailymail.co.uk
>> > because that is a particularly heavy duty site.
>>
>> OK. A lot of random browsing around that site led to:
>>
>> (5743.130000) content/llcache.c llcache_finalise 3352: Backing store
>> average bandwidth 531777 bytes/second
>>
>> which is over 5 times faster. However, I thought we would be talking
>> drive speed, which shouldn't be affected by the download speed of any
>> particular site, or am I completely up the wrong alley?
>
> That value is *purely* the total amount *written* to disc divided by
> how long the write operations took. The write time includes all
> directory creation/seek operations etc. rather than just the raw disc
> write performance.
>
> Anything above a megabit a second (125000 bytes/second) will not
> trigger the warning about low write speed. I set it there because
> below that value the overheads of disc caching exceed the benefit of
> simply fetching data from the network.
>
I have some results from my Pi B (system details below):
1. Accessing Steve's Digicams Reviews (a content-heavy page)
http://www.steves-digicams.com/camera-reviews/
content/llcache.c llcache_finalise 3352: Backing store average
bandwidth 6426 bytes/second;
2. Accessing Digital Photography Review
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews
content/llcache.c llcache_finalise 3352: Backing store average
bandwidth 449 bytes/second.
Pretty dire, and unsurprisingly the 'inadequate bandwidth' warning was
triggered in both cases. NetSurf is running on my system SD card, a
Kingston 4GB class 10 item. Other system details: NS 3.4 [Dev CI
#2696], RasPi B @ 900MHz, RO 5.21 [RC12, 12-Jan-15].
--
George
Re: Updated disc cache
In article <20150403111441.GB18724@kyllikki.org>,
Vincent Sanders <vince@netsurf-browser.org> wrote:
[Snip]
> If you are feeling very adventurous you can report the bandwidth
> achieved.
[Snip]
(152.540000) content/llcache.c llcache_finalise 3352: Backing store
average bandwidth 561256 bytes/second
--
_____________________________________________________________________
Brian Jordan
Virtual RPC-AdjustSA on Windows 8.1 Pro
RISC OS 6.20
_____________________________________________________________________
Vincent Sanders <vince@netsurf-browser.org> wrote:
[Snip]
> If you are feeling very adventurous you can report the bandwidth
> achieved.
[Snip]
(152.540000) content/llcache.c llcache_finalise 3352: Backing store
average bandwidth 561256 bytes/second
--
_____________________________________________________________________
Brian Jordan
Virtual RPC-AdjustSA on Windows 8.1 Pro
RISC OS 6.20
_____________________________________________________________________
Re: Updated disc cache
[snip]
> I would suggest that any of you using the disc cache to delete it
> before running a NetSurf CI version after #2696 NetSurf will continue
> to run just fine if you do not but all the old cache files will be
> left behind and never cleaned up.
Is there a ',' or an '.' missing somewhere? The meaning is slightly fuzzy.
[snip]
> I would suggest that any of you using the disc cache to delete it
> before running a NetSurf CI version after #2696 NetSurf will continue
> to run just fine if you do not but all the old cache files will be
> left behind and never cleaned up.
Is there a ',' or an '.' missing somewhere? The meaning is slightly fuzzy.
[snip]
Friday, 3 April 2015
[gccsdk] steven_c_frost@btinternet.com
how are you?,
You're not gonna believe this, but thanks to this method I just found out I'd made a lot of money! 700 GBP in even 3 hours!
If you want I can tell you how to do the same, but you have to promise you will not share this information with other people.
If you are able to keep a secret, I'll give you one of my two free invitations.
I'm sure you'll be so pleased with the results that you will give me at least 10% of what you earn.
Your private invite link: http://danieliluminacion.com/lckstks/dsrnapipnytwkwtqtqxzvxnlphksmjxwm.mujhwfsvnignwgiqof
You're not gonna believe this, but thanks to this method I just found out I'd made a lot of money! 700 GBP in even 3 hours!
If you want I can tell you how to do the same, but you have to promise you will not share this information with other people.
If you are able to keep a secret, I'll give you one of my two free invitations.
I'm sure you'll be so pleased with the results that you will give me at least 10% of what you earn.
Your private invite link: http://danieliluminacion.com/lckstks/dsrnapipnytwkwtqtqxzvxnlphksmjxwm.mujhwfsvnignwgiqof
Re: Updated disc cache
In article <20150403111441.GB18724@kyllikki.org>,
Vincent Sanders <vince@netsurf-browser.org> wrote:
> If you are feeling very adventurous you can report the bandwidth
> achieved. This is a line in the debug Log file held in scrap *after*
> the browser has been quit. The last line of the Log will read
> something like:
> (2298.806358) desktop/netsurf.c netsurf_exit 294: Exited successfully
Average bandwidth 355822 bytes/second
NetSurf CI #2680 ARMX6
--
Stuart Winsor
Tools With A Mission
sending tools across the world
http://www.twam.co.uk/
Vincent Sanders <vince@netsurf-browser.org> wrote:
> If you are feeling very adventurous you can report the bandwidth
> achieved. This is a line in the debug Log file held in scrap *after*
> the browser has been quit. The last line of the Log will read
> something like:
> (2298.806358) desktop/netsurf.c netsurf_exit 294: Exited successfully
Average bandwidth 355822 bytes/second
NetSurf CI #2680 ARMX6
--
Stuart Winsor
Tools With A Mission
sending tools across the world
http://www.twam.co.uk/
Re: Updated disc cache
In article <mpro.nm8dx001qojsl00l7.pittdj@pittdj.co.uk>,
David Pitt <pittdj@pittdj.co.uk> wrote:
> Can't say that I blame it! The ROOL forum content is particularly
> turgid at the moment, no sensible software would see any purpose in
> cacheing that.
>
I am not sure what you mean there. Viewing the forum on an old
(ex-XP) laptop now running a light linux, or on an old eeePC also
running some sort of linux (Xandros?) the pages always load very
quickly.
--
Chris Johnson
David Pitt <pittdj@pittdj.co.uk> wrote:
> Can't say that I blame it! The ROOL forum content is particularly
> turgid at the moment, no sensible software would see any purpose in
> cacheing that.
>
I am not sure what you mean there. Viewing the forum on an old
(ex-XP) laptop now running a light linux, or on an old eeePC also
running some sort of linux (Xandros?) the pages always load very
quickly.
--
Chris Johnson
Re: Updated disc cache
On Fri, Apr 03, 2015 at 03:13:17PM +0100, David Pitt wrote:
> I also think NetSurf's performance is severely hampered by the slow
> processors available to RISC OS.
No, the CPUs are perfectly adequately fast. A Raspberry Pi can do many
megabytes a second when running Linux. RISC OS's IO layer and file
system stack is simply too old-fashioned and simplistic (even by 1980s
standards).
B.
> I also think NetSurf's performance is severely hampered by the slow
> processors available to RISC OS.
No, the CPUs are perfectly adequately fast. A Raspberry Pi can do many
megabytes a second when running Linux. RISC OS's IO layer and file
system stack is simply too old-fashioned and simplistic (even by 1980s
standards).
B.
Re: Updated disc cache
I have now tried on the PandaBoard. Used random pages from the Daily
Mail site (not much content if you are not interested in celebrates!).
The first time I tried I fairly quickly ended up with the cache being
disabled - the logged average speed was not much over 100 KB/s.
However, I then reran Netsurf and using the same site but different
pages, there was no disabling and after wasting about 20 mins of my
life, the average speed logged was close on 500 KB/s, which was much
better. This is on a usb connected SSD, formated to filecore, which
is not as fast as Fat32fs formatted.
Is the caching possibly slower at first when things are being set up,
and faster afterwards?
The pages do render much faster on the PB than on the Iyonix.
--
Chris Johnson
Mail site (not much content if you are not interested in celebrates!).
The first time I tried I fairly quickly ended up with the cache being
disabled - the logged average speed was not much over 100 KB/s.
However, I then reran Netsurf and using the same site but different
pages, there was no disabling and after wasting about 20 mins of my
life, the average speed logged was close on 500 KB/s, which was much
better. This is on a usb connected SSD, formated to filecore, which
is not as fast as Fat32fs formatted.
Is the caching possibly slower at first when things are being set up,
and faster afterwards?
The pages do render much faster on the PB than on the Iyonix.
--
Chris Johnson
Re: unreadably narrow column in rendering of page
"J. F. Lemaire", on 3 Apr, wrote:
> On 31 March 2015 at 16:44, Jim Nagel <netsurf@abbeypress.co.uk> wrote:
> > These pages from local newspaper takes ages in the fetching-processing
> > stage, and then finally displays its text in a pane that is too narrow
> > to read.
> >
http://www.centralsomersetgazette.co.uk/Just-doctor-ordered/story-26229361-detail/story.html
> >
http://www.centralsomersetgazette.co.uk/Street-schoolgirl-gains-place-national-theatre/story-26181050-detail/story.html
> >
> > Dunno if the fault is Netsurf or the designer of the page.
>
> Firefox doesn't seem to be doing a much better job. It doesn't look like a
> NetSurf issue.
All good here in Firefox 36.0.4. In NetSurf #2696 there is a large blank
space to the left of the story.
--
David Pitt
> On 31 March 2015 at 16:44, Jim Nagel <netsurf@abbeypress.co.uk> wrote:
> > These pages from local newspaper takes ages in the fetching-processing
> > stage, and then finally displays its text in a pane that is too narrow
> > to read.
> >
http://www.centralsomersetgazette.co.uk/Just-doctor-ordered/story-26229361-detail/story.html
> >
http://www.centralsomersetgazette.co.uk/Street-schoolgirl-gains-place-national-theatre/story-26181050-detail/story.html
> >
> > Dunno if the fault is Netsurf or the designer of the page.
>
> Firefox doesn't seem to be doing a much better job. It doesn't look like a
> NetSurf issue.
All good here in Firefox 36.0.4. In NetSurf #2696 there is a large blank
space to the left of the story.
--
David Pitt
Re: Updated disc cache
cj, on 3 Apr, wrote:
> In article <mpro.nm8dx001qojsl00l7.pittdj@pittdj.co.uk>,
> David Pitt <pittdj@pittdj.co.uk> wrote:
> > Hmm! My Iyonix did over three time better than that, and there was no
> > "too slow" message. My test piece was http://www.dailymail.co.uk because
> > that is a particularly heavy duty site.
>
> OK. A lot of random browsing around that site led to:
>
> (5743.130000) content/llcache.c llcache_finalise 3352: Backing store
> average bandwidth 531777 bytes/second
>
> which is over 5 times faster. However, I thought we would be talking drive
> speed, which shouldn't be affected by the download speed of any particular
> site, or am I completely up the wrong alley?
I have just a bit of a take two on the Daily Mail site, a longer session,
and this time got an average bandwidth of 447397bytes/second on the Iyonix.
I too would think that cacheing would mainly be about disc speed but I also
think NetSurf's performance is severely hampered by the slow processors
available to RISC OS.
--
David Pitt
> In article <mpro.nm8dx001qojsl00l7.pittdj@pittdj.co.uk>,
> David Pitt <pittdj@pittdj.co.uk> wrote:
> > Hmm! My Iyonix did over three time better than that, and there was no
> > "too slow" message. My test piece was http://www.dailymail.co.uk because
> > that is a particularly heavy duty site.
>
> OK. A lot of random browsing around that site led to:
>
> (5743.130000) content/llcache.c llcache_finalise 3352: Backing store
> average bandwidth 531777 bytes/second
>
> which is over 5 times faster. However, I thought we would be talking drive
> speed, which shouldn't be affected by the download speed of any particular
> site, or am I completely up the wrong alley?
I have just a bit of a take two on the Daily Mail site, a longer session,
and this time got an average bandwidth of 447397bytes/second on the Iyonix.
I too would think that cacheing would mainly be about disc speed but I also
think NetSurf's performance is severely hampered by the slow processors
available to RISC OS.
--
David Pitt
Re: Updated disc cache
<snip>
> > >
> > > I suspect much of the delay for small files is due to checking,
> > > creating, and traversing directories!
>
> > The depth was chosen so it would work on poor-quality file systems that
> > only allow a handful of entries in a directory, such as FileCore :)
>
> It is a shame that there is no simple way to discover if 'big
> directories' are being used with no such limitations, as they have been
> here for many many years.
>
A bit technical for this list but
http://git.netsurf-browser.org/netsurf.git/tree/content/fs_backing_store.c#n326
explains all the constraints from all the different systems the cache
must deal with, the result is lowest common denominator. Beleive me
when I say working out that limit set from a many dimensional dataset
like that was not easy
With the changes I have just made however more than 90% of metadata
and 70% of actual data ends up in the large block files and causes far
fewer directories to be created substantially reducing overheads.
--
Regards Vincent
http://www.kyllikki.org/
> > >
> > > I suspect much of the delay for small files is due to checking,
> > > creating, and traversing directories!
>
> > The depth was chosen so it would work on poor-quality file systems that
> > only allow a handful of entries in a directory, such as FileCore :)
>
> It is a shame that there is no simple way to discover if 'big
> directories' are being used with no such limitations, as they have been
> here for many many years.
>
A bit technical for this list but
http://git.netsurf-browser.org/netsurf.git/tree/content/fs_backing_store.c#n326
explains all the constraints from all the different systems the cache
must deal with, the result is lowest common denominator. Beleive me
when I say working out that limit set from a many dimensional dataset
like that was not easy
With the changes I have just made however more than 90% of metadata
and 70% of actual data ends up in the large block files and causes far
fewer directories to be created substantially reducing overheads.
--
Regards Vincent
http://www.kyllikki.org/
Re: Updated disc cache
On Fri, Apr 03, 2015 at 02:39:05PM +0100, cj wrote:
> In article <mpro.nm8dx001qojsl00l7.pittdj@pittdj.co.uk>,
> David Pitt <pittdj@pittdj.co.uk> wrote:
> > Hmm! My Iyonix did over three time better than that, and there was
> > no "too slow" message. My test piece was http://www.dailymail.co.uk
> > because that is a particularly heavy duty site.
>
> OK. A lot of random browsing around that site led to:
>
> (5743.130000) content/llcache.c llcache_finalise 3352: Backing store
> average bandwidth 531777 bytes/second
>
> which is over 5 times faster. However, I thought we would be talking
> drive speed, which shouldn't be affected by the download speed of any
> particular site, or am I completely up the wrong alley?
That value is *purely* the total amount *written* to disc divided by
how long the write operations took. The write time includes all
directory creation/seek operations etc. rather than just the raw disc
write performance.
Anything above a megabit a second (125000 bytes/second) will not
trigger the warning about low write speed. I set it there because
below that value the overheads of disc caching exceed the benefit of
simply fetching data from the network.
>
> --
> Chris Johnson
>
>
--
Regards Vincent
http://www.kyllikki.org/
> In article <mpro.nm8dx001qojsl00l7.pittdj@pittdj.co.uk>,
> David Pitt <pittdj@pittdj.co.uk> wrote:
> > Hmm! My Iyonix did over three time better than that, and there was
> > no "too slow" message. My test piece was http://www.dailymail.co.uk
> > because that is a particularly heavy duty site.
>
> OK. A lot of random browsing around that site led to:
>
> (5743.130000) content/llcache.c llcache_finalise 3352: Backing store
> average bandwidth 531777 bytes/second
>
> which is over 5 times faster. However, I thought we would be talking
> drive speed, which shouldn't be affected by the download speed of any
> particular site, or am I completely up the wrong alley?
That value is *purely* the total amount *written* to disc divided by
how long the write operations took. The write time includes all
directory creation/seek operations etc. rather than just the raw disc
write performance.
Anything above a megabit a second (125000 bytes/second) will not
trigger the warning about low write speed. I set it there because
below that value the overheads of disc caching exceed the benefit of
simply fetching data from the network.
>
> --
> Chris Johnson
>
>
--
Regards Vincent
http://www.kyllikki.org/
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